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Saturday, July 12, 2008

France: "No Woman Enslavement Allowed"

The government of France has just established a vitally important precedent in the battle against the Islamization of the planet. Citing "insufficient assimilation," France has denied citizenship to a Moroccan woman who is "totally submissive" to her husband and male relatives, and who is forced to dress in a full Islamic veil, i.e., a burqa/burkha, chador or abaya.

Of course, we can expect to hear from those who believe that women should have the "right" to dress and live in this inhumane and oppressive manner. These "liberal" cries appear to be based entirely on the blatant bigotry which supposes that anything done in the name of religion - no matter how vile - is just peachy keen. If, however, a Western, non-Muslim woman were living in a totally submissive state and forced to cover herself from head to toe not in the name of religion, would not the same people be yelling for intervention, to help this woman free herself of her abusive husband and this patent imprisonment? The woman in this current story would be freed and sent to a domestic violence shelter, with protection from the law against her husband - if she were not imprisoned by so-called religious ideology.

What truly "religious" ideology is based on the mistreatment and enslavement of women? How can there possibly be any good, decent and merciful god behind such egregious abuse of human rights? Millions of women around the world are suffering horribly because of manmade cults seemingly designed specifically for the purpose of enslaving them - yet, where is the outcry from the "bleeding heart" segment of society? "Religion" is not an excuse and should never have been an excuse for the abuse of women and the denial of basic human rights. If one is truly a "bleeding heart" one will feel the pain of these women in their daily enslavement in the name of Islam - and one will demand an end to it NOW, no "ifs," "ands" or "buts" about it. This enslavement of women is EVIL, period.

Fortunately, France has finally grown a backbone and made this moral decision that could open the door to ending this vile abuse in the name of God. No god who demands abusing women is worthy of the name or of any sort of worship. No ideology that believes women to be inferior or mere sexual objects in need of being enslaved and covered up should be deemed a "religion" and be given special status. Any such ideology must either change or die.

"All the 'bleeding heart' multicultists who do not demand an end to the severe, worldwide abuse of women, regardless of the fact that it is done in the name of religion and God, are part of the problem."

These "leftist" individuals are in effect and indecently aiding and abetting these vicious, ongoing crimes against humanity. Let us hope that such characters do not succeed in overturning this ruling in France, as they are attempting to do, some of them quite likely at the behest of and financed by Muslim organizations who thrive on enslaving women. In reality, France should take this act a step further and deny or revoke the citizenship of this woman's husband and male relatives, and boot them out of the country. The victim should then be allowed to live in France with her children, provided she obtains counseling and is freed from her psychological and spiritual enslavement.

By taking this powerful step against the abuse of women in their country, France is leading the way in containing the virulent anti-woman sickness that is spreading throughout the world. All civilized countries must follow suit - and they must then put pressure on the uncivilized, backward nations to do likewise, or there will be no acceptance into the global family of humankind. No woman anywhere on the planet should be abused and enslaved in this manner, period. To invoke religion and God as excuses for this wanton evil represents the height of savagery and depravity.
France rejects Muslim woman over radical practice of Islam

· Expert says Moroccan lives 'almost as a recluse'
· Case reopens debate about freedom of religion

France has denied citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears a burqa on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes.

The case yesterday reopened the debate about Islam in France, and how the secular republic reconciles itself with the freedom of religion guaranteed by the French constitution.

The woman, known as Faiza M, is 32, married to a French national and lives east of Paris. She has lived in France since 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France. Social services reports said she lived in "total submission" to her husband. Her application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on the grounds of "insufficient assimilation" into France. She appealed, invoking the French constitutional right to religious freedom and saying that she had never sought to challenge the fundamental values of France. But last month the Council of State, France's highest administrative body, upheld the ruling.

"She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," it said.

"Is the burqa incompatible with French citizenship?" asked Le Monde, which broke the story. The paper said it was the first time the level of a person's personal religious practice had been used to rule on their capacity be to assimilated into France.

The legal expert who reported to the Council of State said the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society".

The report said: "She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind."

The woman had said she was not veiled when she lived in Morocco and had worn the burqa since arriving in France at the request of her husband. She said she wore it more from habit than conviction....

France is home to nearly 5 million Muslims, roughly half of whom are French citizens. Criteria taken into account for granting French citizenship includes "assimilation", which normally focuses on how well the candidate speaks French. In the past nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremists or who had publicly advocated radicalism, but that was not the case of Faiza M.

The ruling comes weeks after a controversy prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be.

France's ban on headscarves and other religious symbols in state schools in 2004 sparked a heated debate over freedom and equality within the secular republic. The French government adheres to the theory that all French citizens are equal before the republic, and religion or ethnic background are matters for the private sphere. In practice, rights groups say, society is plagued by discrimination.

The president, Nicolas Sarkozy, has stressed the importance of "integration" into French life. Part of his heightened controls on immigrants is a new law to make foreigners who want to join their families sit an exam on French language and values before leaving their countries.

45 comments:

¿Mi nombre Importa? No lo creo said...

Hi Acharya!
I believe in polygamy and polyamory but not in the submission of any human being, specially women. I am the father of three young women. I did educated them to be free. One is a Doctor, the other is an Engineer, and the youngest a Phsychologist. I raised the to be free and productive, to enjoy life and despise ignorance and hatred. Religious fanatism curtails the enjoyment of life. And religious polygamy is equal to slavery. On the other side free polygamy or polyamory is the total enjoyment of life.

Anonymous said...

I think this is a problem that will get more and more attention internationally. Not the wearing of certain types of clothing, but the the conflict between some "religious" practices and the basic rights given to individuals by the state. A possible solution would be to only grant freedom of religious practice that does not contradict the basic civil law, if such civil law does not itself allow for inhumane treatment of individuals. This seems obvious, but if not defined as such it will leave the door open to inhumane treatment under the pretense of religious practice. I think people often use religion as an excuse for their own peculiar deranged preferences which has in essence nothing to do with their claimed religion.

May Hemm said...

Interesting.
We know what the reaction will be to this decision, though - More violence (rape, etc.) Which will justify and strengthen their position. France knows this. So don't be too surprised. Watch what happens. They won't be able to enforce this. How could they, since it inhibits a freedom (That millions of Muslims are going to scream about - in essence using freedom against the West...)?
In a free country, that woman has the right to wear a burka, not participate in society and to be a doormat-sperm-receptacle. Law can protect her from abuse (if she decides to avail herself of it)...

We know full well that here in the US there are plenty of people who'd like the same sort of crap over here...

Kirk Ultra said...

Wow, that's too bad. I'm 1000% against the legalization of oppression, but how is this woman ever going to get help if she can't make it to Europe? Surely there are more women's shelters in France than in Morocco?

I think we should let in Muslims everywhere, especially women. Man-made borders are a constant source of injustice in the world, so I tend to vote for anything that makes immigration easier.

It's the fact that some European countries are allowing sharia (is that spelled right?) law to become state law that has my mind boggled. Especially in the cases where it's sharia law for Muslim's only, which is such a racist act for those government's to perform that I can barely believe it. Any excuse to put a happy liberal smiley face on the police state I guess.

But yeah, I've got to throw my vote out there for open borders all over the world. The more people making it to a free country, the more people getting the chance to let their mind's expand so they can leave their old world behind them. I hope the woman being sent back to Morocco is okay.

Love the blog Acharya! I still remember watching you on Richard Metzger's show :)

Anonymous said...

Acharya S wrote:"If, however, a Western, non-Muslim woman were living in a totally submissive state and forced to cover herself from head to toe not in the name of religion, would not the same people be yelling for intervention, to help this woman free herself of her abusive husband and this patent imprisonment? The woman in this current story would be freed and sent to a domestic violence shelter, with protection from the law against her husband - if she were not imprisoned by so-called religious ideology." ---

Not really. The most recent example would be the FDLS women. They're even being celebrated and supported as they sell their hideous clothing on the internet.

~ Susan

shakeitup said...

Acharya, you are a woman of great courage. I am at the point of cutting ties with my brother because he lives in a very shelter white prosperous liberal community and he supports crushing people with hate speech laws if they speak out against the religion of peace. He would never use the word "crushing" because he imagines himself to be loving and enlightened. He actually sees himself as enlighted man of peace. He would be horrified if he knew what he is indirectly supporting but I can't get the stupid jackass to even google a few relevent sites. Nor does he get the idea that granting terrorism-by-lawsuit to any anyone just because they feel shocked ,outraged, or insulted is a horribly slippery slope that one day can turn around on him and bite him on the a$$; can deprive him of all that he worked hard for. I know I only have a vague sense of the abuse you have had to endure as you seek to speak the truth. I ,for one, appreciate it deeply.
Also,I am a man that wants all women reading this article to know that even though I suppose I could benefit under that submissive woman system, I could not stand the thought of a woman being with me that doesn't want to be with me. I have never understood people wanting to force another to stay in a relationship. With regards to a mate, the thought of looking into another's eyes and not feeling love and respect is repulsive beyond words.

Acharya S said...

Thanks, shakeitup, for the intelligent observations. 'Tis unfortunately true that the "lefty liberal loonies" are equivalent to the Rahab whores letting the Israelites into Jericho. (Joshua 2)

This same "harlot," Rahab, it should be noted, is listed as one of Jesus's ancestors at Matthew 1:5. Jesus would thereby be a descendant of a whore who betrayed her own people, allowing the Israelites to slaughter innocent men, women and children, and steal their city.

Charming.

In any event, these DHIMMIS (non-Muslims who allow Muslim domination) and RAHABS will bring doom upon themselves, because Islamic rule does not tolerate their liberal, bleeding heart kind. As I state in the blog, they are aiding and abetting the destruction of true human civilization. Future generations enslaved under Islam will have these Rahabs/dhimmis to blame in large part for their enslavement. I for one will have a clear conscience that I did not let my descendants down by opening the gates to the enslavers and conquerors.

Anonymous said...

France is french culture not muslim culture if the muslims want their own culture and laws go back to a muslim country not a western nation. Western nations bend overbackwards for minoritys instead of majority, they come for freedom, social security money, pensions and other goodies that western countries supply but want their own culture. send them back.

skullnboner said...

Poor France! She's been plagued for millenia off and on.. most currently by one group still (the Rahabs!) with the regrouping assault of Rahab Dhimmis (acually I don't think the Rahabs are that dumb!)aiding and abetting a scourge or rats to spread their own disease. The latter following he proverbial pied piper!

Still it is an encouragement, that some of the REAL French still have some spitfire to dish out the poison. Now if they could only recognise the mischief wrought by the pied piper, string him up and stuff his flute up his butt-hole forever.

Anonymous said...

Well, if people who belong to religions that believe in enslaving women are not allowed to enslave women, how is it possible for such persons to practice their religion, and, thus, how is it possible for religious freedom to exist for that religion? It isn't, I expect. Which proves that the idea of religious freedom is impossible. Best to understand that now, than to give your mind and nation to Islam.

Goose said...

I was shocked this week to learn of a mercy killing right here in metropolitan Atlanta. A father strangled his daughter to death for attempting to get out of a pre-arranged marriage. As a human being, and as a father of two daughters, I am appalled by this savagery. Then, this week, the Atlanta newspaper ran a guest column from a female Muslim that rambled on about "this is not Islam, this is not our way, yada, yada." NOTE TO MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, AND ALL OTHER CULTS: Just throw your religion out the window. Your life will be much more simpler and you'll be much happier. Believe me, it took several years before I had the guts to do it, but once I did, I realized it was the smartest decision I ever made. I have zero regrets and I am a much happier person. Go France!

SvenAlbert said...

I sincerely appreciate that work that is achieved on this website, however, what I like to see is some more critical thinking among the members of this community. NO one, and I mean NO one EVER questions WHY immigrants from thees remote muslim nations are brought to Europe and North America.
NO one questions if there is a purpose with this mass immigration almost on the verge of invasion (for those of you who don't understand what I am talking about, go to Paris and have a look for your self). In Sweden, there is 8 million Swedes and ONE million Immigrants, predominantly muslims.. WHY??????
If you try to crowbar up your enclosed mind and start to ask yourself -is it possible that some one could make a fortune and gain the the total power over Countries that are too busy fighting this infringement of its host population?? If this gets your attention at all, go onto YouTube.com and checkout "Rothchild Timeline", it should give you something to think about. Thanks for your time. SvenAlbert

Anonymous said...

The majority of women in the world are abused regardless of religion. Even in the western world where women are most equivalent to men in terms of stature, there is still discrimination based on gender, race, and age. And behind closed doors, you of course have domestic abuse. Heck, even children cannot even vote and we consider ourselves a progressive society.
Why Acharya decides to coincidently attack the abuses of women at the same time the major media is attacking middle east culture and "radical Islam" is beyond me. It looks suspicious and is at best coincidental. Not saying that the spotlight shouldn't be shown on abuse on women. It's just that it looks fishy that she only looks at the abuse of women in Islam at a time when there are forces that are also attacking Islam in the major media.
Why attribute it to just one factor of many that is contributing to the oppression of women and only to one culture. After all, it is men who are mostly at fault for oppressing women as well as the culture. Why is she only singling out religion, and only Islam? You could just as well blame testosterone for all the problems in the middle east. It is not a fair, nor comprehensive look a the causes of abuse of women in the middle east.
If you take away religion, then law, or culture will replace the reasons for abuse. Men will find a way to abuse other people - whether they make up a religion, law, or custom to do it. You see it almost in every culture. The source of the problem is probably not religion, or law, or culture. The root problem is selfishness, greed, harmones, lack of education, war, and irresponsibility.
You could argue that religion, law, or custom makes it easier for others to abuse others. But to argue that it is the root cause of abuse is the same argument as saying that "guns kill people", and not that "people kill people". Guns don't kill people. Guns just make it either harder or easier to kill people. In the end, people kill people. People just use religion as an excuse to justify their abuse.
Without understanding all the reasons for abuse, you are not going to ever end it.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

Well, if people who belong to religions that believe in enslaving women are not allowed to enslave women, how is it possible for such persons to practice their religion, and, thus, how is it possible for religious freedom to exist for that religion? It isn't, I expect. Which proves that the idea of religious freedom is impossible. Best to understand that now, than to give your mind and nation to Islam.


Too true. What if it was someone's religion to kill and eat babies? Would that be allowed under "religious freedom?" It was the religion of the Aztecs to sacrifice thousands of people at once, cutting out their still-beating hearts - should they be allowed to continue these practices under the guise of "religious freedom?"

The laws against the abuse of innocents and human rights must apply, regardless of any crappy "religion." Again, any such religion that continues to abuse humans must change or die, just as the Aztec religion was killed off.

If Islam doesn't change, it will be forced to go the same way - unless the true humanity is prepared to allow savagery rule and destroy it.

Acharya S said...

Goose said...

I was shocked this week to learn of a mercy killing right here in metropolitan Atlanta. A father strangled his daughter to death for attempting to get out of a pre-arranged marriage. As a human being, and as a father of two daughters, I am appalled by this savagery. Then, this week, the Atlanta newspaper ran a guest column from a female Muslim that rambled on about "this is not Islam, this is not our way, yada, yada." NOTE TO MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, AND ALL OTHER CULTS: Just throw your religion out the window. Your life will be much more simpler and you'll be much happier. Believe me, it took several years before I had the guts to do it, but once I did, I realized it was the smartest decision I ever made. I have zero regrets and I am a much happier person. Go France!


Thanks, Goose. I wholeheartedly concur with tossing religious fanaticism out the window for good - and this is the right place to go to do it, as is my website TruthBeknown.com

Time for humanity to wake up and move beyond these crappy religious ideologies.

From his mugshot, that vile man in Atlanta is one of the ugliest people I have ever laid eyes on - and THAT is what religious fanaticism will do to you.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

The majority of women in the world are abused regardless of religion. Even in the western world where women are most equivalent to men in terms of stature, there is still discrimination based on gender, race, and age. And behind closed doors, you of course have domestic abuse. Heck, even children cannot even vote and we consider ourselves a progressive society.
Why Acharya decides to coincidently attack the abuses of women at the same time the major media is attacking middle east culture and "radical Islam" is beyond me.


It's really quite simple and should not be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to world events. Right now as I waste time explaining the obvious, Europe is being engulfed by fanatic Muslims who are destroying European culture at an alarming rate. They are being appeased by individuals who just cannot fathom why anyone would at this time attack Islam.

The time is now to stop the cancer before it is terminal. Apparently, you would wait until that stage to make a move. I am unwilling to see my descendants enslaved under Islamic domination - and that is a stated goal that is being implemented on all fronts RIGHT NOW. Not tomorrow, not a few years from now, but NOW. No time to waste, and I've just wasted enough.

Interested parties please see:

The Muslim Brotherhood Plot to Dominate the World

shakeitup said...

To anonymous 11:16 am
There is a world of difference between being offended and having one’s feelings hurt or disrespected and the violent and bloody oppression of people who simply want to be their own rational peaceful sovereign individual. Your inability to make distinctions within the word “abuse” is not surprising but it is disappointing. Everyone , male and female , experiences abuse on a daily basis, we experience discrimination frequently for any imaginable reason, (too short, to fat, too skinny, too bald, not attractive ,too attractive, not old enough, too old) . I’ve even seen people treated abusively because they are considered too nice or too happy. This is quite different than religions ( and liberal freaks) who use violence and deprivation of property by way of legal systems (backed up by guns and imprisonment) to silence people that won’t join their holy crusade.
To attribute abuse to men is rather bigoted and androphobic. While certainly there are many violent and abusive men out there you seem to miss that there are great number of men who have dedicated their lives to supporting the health and well being of their fellow humans , men who have been very generous with their money and their time, and many who have suffered greatly for supporting and encouraging the best in people. You may not know any of them personally because they don’t generally like hanging around with people like you. But I suppose if you would google the adjectives that represent the best of the human spirit , why , you’d be surprised to find just how many men are represented in that category.

And as for your comment “without understanding all the reasons for abuse, you are never going to end it” , please consider that when you go to a doctor for a medical emergency you don’t care if he or she understands ALL the reasons for diseases or blood loss.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 11:16 am
There is a world of difference between being offended and having one’s feelings hurt or disrespected and the violent and bloody oppression of people who simply want to be their own rational peaceful sovereign individual.

Oh, and it makes no difference that history has shown that other nations subdue and oppress other nations/people regardless of whether or not they were religious or doing it in the name of religion? Physical abuse using my muscles is less sinister because I do not do it in the name of religion?
For your information, I wasn't talking about every type of abuse. We were talking about the type of abuse that warrants attention from the legal system (or the type of abuse that was talked about in this article).
To attribute abuse to men is rather bigoted and androphobic.
Huh? I hope you know that I am male as well too. I was trying to make the point by giving the example that men are the cause of the ultimate suffering of women. But I never did mean to make it something that was meant to be equivalent to a doctorial dissertation or book. You can't expect someone to post 5 pages worth of stuff and explain every single interpretation and detail to you. This is just a blog. I could have just as easily have said that both women and men are the cause of their own suffering. And have given reasons (which of course would probably be challenged). But that wasn't the point. The point was to give another possible reason for the abuse of women.
If you don't understand the root causes of what the ailment is, then you are basically playing russian ruelette. You might get it right, or you must miss the point all together. Take dental amalgams for example - some of them contain toxic mercury which can invade the nervous system and cause all sorts of neurological and health issues. True it does fix the problem of a cavity, but at what cost? And does that really treat the root cause of the problem (how the cavity got there in the first place or the prevention of cavities)? No. I agree you have a point that understanding everything is almost impossible, and that sometimes we have very little choice in the matter. But when there are instances when we do have choice, then it makes sense to use all our faculties in order to make the best approach using the information at hand. Otherwise, you're gambling.

Ragoczy said...

So, you believe this woman is being abused and support the French position that she should be denied citizenship ... because she's being abused? Well, that makes sense.

Anonymous said...

There are people (of both genders) who WANT to be completely submissive. Some even "enslaved". It is part of their personality that they feel more secure with less control, when someone is taking care of them. I know and have known many submissive men and women very aware of their personality quirks and desires. Some of them have been taken advantage of and even abused, and that is truly awful since true submissives are by nature extremely loving, giving, and sacrificing. Many find a dominant partner that takes very good care of them. Is this an indication that I should warn such D/s couples to avoid France?

Anonymous said...

Gah. It's not about using religion as an excuse.

If it is *her free choice* to act in such a way, and nobody else is harmed by her decision (as in this case), what right does the state have to say otherwise?

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

Gah. It's not about using religion as an excuse.

If it is *her free choice* to act in such a way, and nobody else is harmed by her decision (as in this case), what right does the state have to say otherwise?


And who says it's her choice? If you read my blog, you would know that I understand this facile argument very well. It simply doesn't fly when it comes to abusive "religious" indoctrination and brainwashing. She has NO choice if she's a Muslim. Such an argument reflects complete ignorance of Islamic brainwashing.

The state has every right to uphold its own policies of not letting religious nutters destroy it. That's called TREASON.

I suggest you read this site, instead of the usual liberal pabulum. (And no, I am not a "conservative." Nor am I a "libertarian." I am person with a conscience who doesn't like the abusiveness and enslavement of religious fanaticism.)

The Muslim Brotherhood Project for Global Domination

You may also wish to read the experiences of the great Ayaan Hirsi Ali as well as watch videos featuring Dr. Wafa Sultan. These two women can tell you firsthand that women like the one in this discussion are ABUSED into their submissive state. What right do YOU have not to let her receive help?

horst said...

the issue has two sides (at least)
- of course it is unacceptable IN OUR SOCIETIES and for our cultural background to force women into such a kind of slavery and thus i fully support this french decision.
- on the other hand it is totally unacceptable also, when we go to foreign countries and turn THEIR SOCIETIES upside down. Bombing the Taliban is not the proper way to help their women! We should respect other people even if we do not accept their ways - it is their country after all.
- you should address also the subject of sexual mutilation.
Why are Jews never criticised about their habit of circumcising their children on the eighth day after birth? This causes irreversible trauma and distorts the child's character for the rest of their lives!

Acharya S said...

horst said...

the issue has two sides (at least)
- of course it is unacceptable IN OUR SOCIETIES and for our cultural background to force women into such a kind of slavery and thus i fully support this french decision.
- on the other hand it is totally unacceptable also, when we go to foreign countries and turn THEIR SOCIETIES upside down. Bombing the Taliban is not the proper way to help their women! We should respect other people even if we do not accept their ways - it is their country after all.
- you should address also the subject of sexual mutilation.
Why are Jews never criticised about their habit of circumcising their children on the eighth day after birth? This causes irreversible trauma and distorts the child's character for the rest of their lives!


I disagree that people on the other side of the world should be left to wallow in their own depravity. I think that Ayaan Hirsi Ali would have something to say about intervening in her native country of Somalia, which is a total hellhole.

Should we allow our neighbors to rape their children just because they live in a different house? I don't think so.

As concerns Jews and circumcision, au contraire - I blogged about it long ago:

Circumcision is Evil

Anonymous said...

France. Too little too late.
Nice try boys. But when they put up a fuss, you'll back down.
As always.

b-ryan@yahoo.com said...

conservatives made oppressing women a way of like and attacking liberals doing battle against its enculturation is cheap thinking
arn't the liberal lefty courts finally overcoming the centuries of conservative reactionary agendas
by the way liberalism is the philosophy of democracy
and taking the family dictator's citizenship away and sending him back to the failure he fled remind the mew arrivals your welcomed but we don't want to be the failure you fled, period.

Anonymous said...

read Leviticus

Wolter said...

I fail to see how denying citizenship to a woman is supposed to further the rights of women.

Is it better to have her remain in an oppressive society where her submissiveness is required by law?

A. Magnus Publius said...

All this talk about 'enslavement' only covers for the real motives of the posters: they want all the woman's male relatives to be deported so that they themselves can tear her burkha off and have their way with her. It all sounds more like extreme jealousy where the posters here secretly covet the control they claim this woman's male relatives have over her. Only in this instance they will exersize their control via the state, which is a much more impersonal means of doing so.

Call a spade a spade here, the fact is you all want to see what's under the burkha and the men in her life are standing in your way. Therefore you criminalize them to provide a pretext for justifying your own intellectual intrusions upon her. Did she ask for your help? No? Then exactly who did ask for your help in running her life?

shakeitup said...

to anonymous 11:16
I was being kind of a wise guy when I used the words bigot and _phobic. Once again I have realized sarcasm doesn’t translate well in writing. In real life I never use those words like bigot or –phobic because I know they are cleverly used as a form of attack while disingenuously appearing to be a defense.
The other problem with term bigot and –phobic is that the people that use these terms the most, actually have a lot of that energy in their own lives. As I have a interest and health and healing I drop into workshops where most members incorrectly assume I am a flaming liberal like them, and so I get to see all kinds of bigotry by people who are certain they are the champions of love , the warriors of peace.
So my apologies for forgetting that that vocal inflection doesn’t come through on a blog and I was being a wiseguy, I only use those terms bigot and phobic in sarcastic jousting.
Now there is something you might want to look at if you are a man and you wrote what you wrote at 11:16. Having been raised in a culture that assaults its members with collective guilt and collective shame, if you really have such hatred for men, that rejection often locks up in your body and will manifest as illness. A person alienated against his own biological being is setting himself for all kinds of health problems. Testosterone is similar to fire in that in can be used for good or destruction. Fire and rescue workers, trauma center doctors , motivational speakers, all use it in support of their fellow humans. Put whatever you have left to good use, don’t let your childhood oppressors shame you for it.
And so that is what is cruel about fundamental Islam. It creates an instant shame, an instant “something is wrong with my very biological being” for a woman. It causes all kind of health issues. While I don’t work directly in the medical field , I do study the link between religion and health issues. Sort of a hobby or more actually a necessity to immunize myself from the assault of my own religion of birth.
If you really care about abuse to women, don’t make them wrong for speaking out against the insanity of any religion that demeans them from the moment of birth. As you pointed out , on a blog you don’t have space to write volumes of documentation, but I assure you, I’ve done my homework , checked it out with medical doctors, and there is a definite link between fundamental , shamed- by-birth religions and chronic health problems.
Sitting around waiting for perfect answers before you do something to save lives is not how I operate. I have saved lives in real life and sometimes it goes down like this "Oh shit I don't want get involved,Oh man this can't be happening... I wish I could call 911... And then you jump in and do what you can. Good luck in learning to harness your testosterone in a positive life affirming way.

Acharya S said...

A. Magnus Publius said...

All this talk about 'enslavement' only covers for the real motives of the posters: they want all the woman's male relatives to be deported so that they themselves can tear her burkha off and have their way with her. It all sounds more like extreme jealousy where the posters here secretly covet the control they claim this woman's male relatives have over her. Only in this instance they will exersize their control via the state, which is a much more impersonal means of doing so.


What a depraved load of garbage. Where is your mind at?

Acharya S said...

Wolter said...

I fail to see how denying citizenship to a woman is supposed to further the rights of women.

Is it better to have her remain in an oppressive society where her submissiveness is required by law?


The issue obviously goes far beyond this woman. France is taking a stand against the blatant misogyny within Islam, period. If nations do not do so, we will find ourselves becoming Islamized, and as a civilized person, I sure as hell don't want to see that happen.

If you do, then you are either a sado-masochist or have not studied the subject in depth. Here are a few websites that should edify you:

The Religion of Peace
Islam Watch
Faith Freedom
The Truth About Islam

Wolter said...

The issue obviously goes far beyond this woman. France is taking a stand against the blatant misogyny within Islam, period. If nations do not do so, we will find ourselves becoming Islamized, and as a civilized person, I sure as hell don't want to see that happen.

Neither do I.
Does France not have laws against enslavement and misogyny? Isn't there legal recourse in France for women who find themselves in a situation such as this?
Granted, it's tough to break away from the brainwashing that such enslavement brings, but surely offering the possibility of freedom from her oppression is the right choice after all? The man who oppresses her can be dealt with by French law since he chose to live under it.

Religious rights don't trump human rights. I fail to see how allowing a subservient woman in would change that.

Wolter said...

A further note:

The laws of a free country are designed in order to protect the freedoms and rights of the people within its borders.
The constitution of a free country is designed to ensure that those laws are not eroded.
The people of a free country must stand ever vigilant against any attempt at erosion of their freedoms.

By sticking its head in the sand, France is showing weakness, which will only embolden its enemies. Since France essentially refused entry based on a religious practice (despicable though it is), they have given the Muslims ammunition in the international arena to accuse France of religious intolerance (and they would be technically correct, though France did it for a good reason).

A less cowardly approach would have been to allow such people in, and start an awareness campaign with billboards and posters all over the place explaining to women that they don't have to live enslaved; that they can be free, and that the free nation they live in will stand by them when they choose to exercise that freedom.
Ideas are powerful. That's why the oppressor tries to control information in order to control the mind.

You can't force someone out of oppression; they have to desire it themselves. Once they realize that they can be free, most, if not all, will desire it. And THAT is when you can help them.

We've defeated Christian dogma. Muslim dogma should be easier to defeat since we already have the infrastructure in place.

Anonymous said...

Actually, disempowerment of women is NOT an original element of Islam. Mohammed was way ahead of his time in promoting women's rights, including inheriting property. Wahabi fundamentalism was a later version of Islam imposed by European outsiders, who foment much of the current mischief. Yes, there are "Muslims" who embrace extremism, just as there are "Christians" who denigrate women as the root of sin and oppress them. Sick individuals will always hide behind righteous ideologies. Many extreme behaviors (including "honor killings") are actually ancient tribal practices having nothing to do with God, scripture, or real belief.

But there are also those who find real faith within their religious or spiritual tradition, and practice the love and compassion taught in their scriptures and other writings. Will the French authorities really be able to tell who's who?

Wolter said...

Actually, disempowerment of women is NOT an original element of Islam.

But it certainly IS the practice in Islam.


But there are also those who find real faith within their religious or spiritual tradition, and practice the love and compassion taught in their scriptures and other writings. Will the French authorities really be able to tell who's who?

Sure. It's really quite simple: Those who deny others their inalienable human rights are criminals.

Anonymous said...

i think you have missed the point of this article. the point is, france is like the u.s. a suposed free state and with this said, what business does the state have in telling someone how to dress and how to practice religion, let alone what kind of wife a woman should be. i will tell you as a muslim woman that this woman has the right to decide what she wants to wear. i fully veil does that make me a slave to my husband whom would rather me not wear the face veil? the bottom line is this, the state has no right to tell anyone how to dress, how to behave, how to raise children, or how to practice a faith. when you start agreeing with this nonsense, the state will one day come at you with a microchip or say you cannot have children because of your bad genes, etc. the point is, it opens up a pandora's box and one day they will step on your toes for the most trival of things. kinda like this article. here is something else no one adressed, why was a social worker comming to her house? sounds to me like if anyone is enslaveing anyone and trying to bend the will of a person, it is the state, not her family.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

i think you have missed the point of this article. the point is, france is like the u.s. a suposed free state and with this said, what business does the state have in telling someone how to dress and how to practice religion, let alone what kind of wife a woman should be. i will tell you as a muslim woman that this woman has the right to decide what she wants to wear. i fully veil does that make me a slave to my husband whom would rather me not wear the face veil? the bottom line is this, the state has no right to tell anyone how to dress, how to behave, how to raise children, or how to practice a faith. when you start agreeing with this nonsense, the state will one day come at you with a microchip or say you cannot have children because of your bad genes, etc. the point is, it opens up a pandora's box and one day they will step on your toes for the most trival of things. kinda like this article. here is something else no one adressed, why was a social worker comming to her house? sounds to me like if anyone is enslaveing anyone and trying to bend the will of a person, it is the state, not her family.


No, I think YOU missed the point, which is that France is a sovereign nation and has the right to "just say no" to being invaded by barbaric and savage cultures that disrespect and abuse women. Yes, the state has the right to enforce ITS laws. Your talk is just more of the same ARROGANT and AGGRESSIVE Islamist garbage that is causing people worldwide to hate Islam. If you don't want to live in a country where women and children are not abused, then go to another country, but don't impose your crappy abusive culture on the country you're living in.

Oh, and do you believe that the STATE of Iran and the STATE of Saudi Arabia have the right to beat and jail women who aren't covered up? WHAT?? Those women don't have the right to dress the way they want. What about the girls in Saudi Arabia who were allowed to be burned to death in their school because they weren't "properly" covered up to go outside? More double-standard trash from a Muslim fanatic.

If you want to be a slave to a bunch of men who think you shouldn't be allowed to show your face in public, that's your problem, especially if you are in a free country, but don't expect others to find your problem as anything but a sign of mental illness. We absolutely do not believe that your blatant enslavement under some disgusting rules and laws made up by MEN has anything whatsoever to do with God.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, and western style oppression teaches women to walk around half naked (and they better be skinny)!

Just as bad.

/Seraph

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

Yeah, and western style oppression teaches women to walk around half naked (and they better be skinny)!

Just as bad.


A bogus comparison, to say the least. There is not overall societal pressure to dress half naked and be skinny or else face the wrath of God and other male egotists who will beat and rape you if you don't. Women in Western cultures generally can dress how they wish, including bagging themselves. But the latter is not something most women raised in a healthy and free environment would choose to do.

T'Zairis said...

The bottom line is this-- women are NOT 'ritually unclean' just because men say they are, and we are not mentally, emotionally or psychologically inferior in any way to our complementary sex.

All religious and state oppression of women is done so that men can own sexual slaves: surrogate mommies they do not have to pay for their labor, and whom they can torment as they wish. The burqha is quite literally abuse hiding under the veil of morality.

The way out of this predicament is easy-- do not worship any 'god-form' that has is said to have a penis or that is referred to by the pronoun 'he', even if the god-form is said to be beyond gender. The use of the male pronoun (and the unwillingness to use the female one) means there is a sexually oppressive agenda at work.

shakeitup said...

To Anonymous 12:12 am
So you and your husband got a real love groove goin’ on . That’s great. You know what? Even if you are a Muslim and I’m a rationalist, we can get along great just based on that. I guess I am a romantic at heart. I think that the more happy healthy relationships there are, the more love to go around the world. So your sugar daddy lets you dress fully veil and maybe puts on his best Barry White voice and sings “Can’t Get Enough of Your Love” while he gives you foot massages? I’m all for that.

But maybe if you’ll click on the link in the article THE ENSLAVEMENT OF WOMEN IS EVIL PERIOD, you’ll remember that there are millions of women that don’t have any choices in finding a Love Connection.
I find I hard to believe and harder still to stomach, the level of brutality against human beings in this day and age. Its not a male or female thing.
My dogs were treated with way more love and respect than millions of Muslim women. Do you realize that most Americans love their dogs more than many Muslim leaders love millions of Muslim women? I would have run into a burning building to save my dogs. My dogs were female by the way.
We are talking about brutality and violence here, not hurt feelings or lack of cultural sensitivity. This is Bloody , ugly , make-you-want-to-throw- up violence.
Won’t you kindly take a look at those links in Acharya's post at12:02 pm and send a letter or two to an Arabic site in support of those women. And know that any rational thinking man is just as likely to have terror rained upon him in those cultures. I don’t know how to type in the language of peace, but you and your husband might be able to show a better way for the more despicable extremists of your faith to live.
Now I’ll let you get back to singing “You make me Feel Like a Natural Woman” to your husband. I wish you and your husband lots of love and happiness. The more love you are sharing , the better for the planet. I hope you consider supporting it for other Muslim women.

a concerned earthling said...

Congradulations France. Now, if we could get all countries, plagued by Islam, to do the same and much more-the world be a better place. Islam is a cult and its followers want to one day rule the world. Scary stuff. Wake up everyone! Islam is a belief system of death. The oppression of women in Islam is just one of its many ugly heads.

Anonymous said...

Is this the cause of the day. Some save animals, small poor black african kids, some save trees and the whales, some save women.

No person, no government has the right to tell someone else how to live. The woman described may be used and abused or maybe that might be a choice that she has made. We tend to save the world because we are scared of saving ourselves, accepting ourselves and not being afraid of ourselves. As in the libertarian spirit, take care of yourself and don't hinder others from taking care of themselves.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

Is this the cause of the day. Some save animals, small poor black african kids, some save trees and the whales, some save women.

No person, no government has the right to tell someone else how to live. The woman described may be used and abused or maybe that might be a choice that she has made. We tend to save the world because we are scared of saving ourselves, accepting ourselves and not being afraid of ourselves. As in the libertarian spirit, take care of yourself and don't hinder others from taking care of themselves.


Are you standing up in a Muslim country such as Saudi Arabia or Iran and shouting, "No person, no government has the right to tell someone else how to live?" Or are you going around the internet anonymously and trying to tell ME how to live by saying, "take care of yourself and don't hinder others from taking care of themselves?"

I'm much easier to boss around than the Saudi Arabian government, apparently.