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Thursday, July 24, 2008

The Bible is Myth?!

In November 2008, PBS will air a TV special claiming that the biblical patriarch Abraham and his wife, Sarah, were not historical persons but were "myths." The documentary will also declare the fabulous Israelite Exodus to be mythical, rather than representing a miraculous "historical" event.

To readers of my work posted online since 1995, and encapsulated in my books, beginning with The Christ Conspiracy, all of this cage-rattling will be old hat. In that book, I laid out the case that Abraham and Sarah are remakes of the Indian deities Brahma and Sarasvati, while Moses is likewise a mythical character based on older gods. In Christ Con, I also show that the Exodus represents not a supernatural event that truly happened on Earth but for which absolutely no evidence has been found. Rather, it too falls in the realm of mythology.

As this article about the PBS documentary relates, the evidence does indeed show that the Bible was composed during and after the so-called Babylonian Captivity of the 6th century BCE. Certain parts of it are older, of course, as some of the most fantastic stories could undoubtedly be found in the libraries in Babylon and Egypt. As I also demonstrated in The Christ Conspiracy almost 10 years ago, the Bible was not composed by the individuals claimed to be its authors, neither the Old Testament nor the New.

The fact that the Nova producer in this article found the concept "extremely shocking" that monotheism was developed over a period of centuries is a reflection of the woeful state of education in comparative religion and mythology. As readers of my work will also know, monotheism did not come to a historical Moses's head via a bolt of lightning from the Almighty but was indeed devised over hundreds of years by a number of cultures, including the Indian and Egyptian, beginning centuries to millennia prior to the purported existence of Moses.

In my books, which include Suns of God and Who Was Jesus?, I also name several other Old Testament patriarchs as mythical characters, including and especially Joshua, who is essentially an old sun god turned into a "real person" and who was later rehashed as "Jesus." Indeed, I do not stop with the Old Testament but further put forth the case for some of the major players in the New Testament to be mythical characters as well, including and especially Jesus Christ. In this regard, it should be noted that there is no credible and valid scientific evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as a historical person, and everything points to him being as mythical a figure as Hercules.

We can only hope that PBS and Nova will jump on this bandwagon as well, sooner than later.
Holy Moses! PBS documentary suggests Exodus not real

Hal Boedeker | Sentinel Television Critic
July 21, 2008

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. - Abraham didn't exist? The Exodus didn't happen?

The Bible's Buried Secrets, a new PBS documentary, is likely to cause a furor.

"It challenges the Bible's stories if you want to read them literally, and that will disturb many people," says archaeologist William Dever, who specializes in Israel's history. "But it explains how and why these stories ever came to be told in the first place, and how and why they were written down."

The Nova program will premiere Nov. 18. PBS presented a clip and a panel discussion at the summer tour of the Television Critics Association.

The program says the Bible was written in the sixth century BC and that hundreds of authors contributed.

"At least the first five books of the Bible come together during the Babylonian exile," says producer Gary Glassman.

The program challenges long-held beliefs. Abraham, Sarah and their offspring probably didn't exist, says Carol Meyers, a religion professor at Duke University.

"These stories are unlikely to represent real historical events, but rather there's some kernel of ancient experience in there which has survived and which helps give identity to the people at the time the Bible finally took shape centuries and centuries later," Meyers says.

There's no archaeological evidence of the Exodus, either, she says, but "it doesn't mean that there's no kernel of truth to it."

Nova series producer Paula Apsell says she found it "extremely shocking" to learn that monotheism was a process that took hundreds of years.

"I was always brought up to believe that the minute Abraham and the patriarchs came on the scene, the Israelites accepted one God and there was just always one God and that was it," Apsell says. "I think people are going to really be stunned by that."

Another shocker: The program contradicts the biblical view that the Israelites came from somewhere else into the land of Canaan. "The film shows that they were Canaanites," Apsell says.

75 comments:

steve trueblue said...

Discard ancient books for just half an hour if you can....
To the calmly curious- For physical evidence of a second intelligence within yourself-Vivid Dreams onset, plus repeatable handtingles- search YouTube on LAY GNOSIS 1 BEGIN HERE site www.truebluehealer.com-Regardless of beliefs-Even atheist testimonials, including doctors from 4 countries. 10-12 mins gets you started. A growing list of triggered 12 month gnostic veterans contactable.

Anonymous said...

So, Acharya, when will PBS, Discovery, History and National Geographic do a documentary on you and your work?

You should be on mainstream new too like CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, and MSNBC etc.

In fact, if the religious folks in the US can have their own tv station then, it's time for the Astrotheology / Mythology Channel isn't it? Now there's a great idea.

A Course In Miracles said...

Dear Acharya,

I first learned about the idea of the evolution of our image and idea of God when I read Erich Fromm's "You Shall Be As Gods", which I liked very much at the time, because I felt the same way like Fromm. I needed to breathe freely and see through a different perspective what God could be to me. I am definitely grateful for works like his etc.

However, over the years, I had to realize that this perspective on God, or Jesus, as you portray it, meaning something that is entirely fabricated by humans is in no way helping me to deal with my fears and need for a purpose. In fact, it leaves me without purpose for my life. If there is nothing else to us here on this planet, I might as well kill myself. There is no hope of ever finding peace of mind and happiness that won't go away in the next moment.

I could not be satisfied with that emptiness and just rest my case or life. Yes, the question is simply why am I here, what am I doing here, who am I etc. What can I put my trust in for something else?

I guess my need for something else became so great, that I had to put my agnosticism aside, and just ask to be shown. What happened was that I came across A Course In Miracles, and an amazing transformation started, and is still happening. Today, I don't need "credible and valid scientific evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as a historical person", because that would be entirely irrelevant to what I needed and still need. I needed an experience that I could actually trust in something other than I knew to that point in time. Something completely different and real to my mind and heart, something I could love and accept as my goal here. I am certain that there will never be a proof of God that will mean anything, except that I become one with God which must be what our reality is despite of appearances telling otherwise. I am here for an experience of love, and the healing of my mind, of freedom from the bondage of space/time in which I can only get old and sick an die in the end with no meaning and purpose whatsoever. Thank God, that story is a myth to me today.

There IS something completely different available. Yet that does not come to me by observation, analyzation, study, or any worldly means. It is a miracle. It is an actual experience of something that makes this world look like nothing, and so it is. And so not just the Bible is a fabrication, but the entire thing is a fabrication, and reality has nothing to do with it. That is real good news to me. And while traces of that truth can still be found in the Biblical teachings of Jesus, it can only be accepted and experienced individually.

But my question to you, Acharya, would be, where do you put your trust in? Where do you put your trust in that your family and friends, and indeed everything will be o.k? Why all this immense study on the story of Jesus etc? What would be the purpose of your books and your studies, if there were no God, no single Source of Reality? I am not sure what you are finally saying in this regard. I have not really read your material, and might have misunderstood you all the way. But I had it in mind for a while to write to you.

Cheers,
Alban

Anonymous said...

How quickly do men forget their God. The philosophies of the world will only create further confusion.

Anonymous said...

Not long ago, some archeologists thought that the Belshazzar of the Bible did not exist. They thought only Nabonido existed and that means that Daniel would have been the second in the kingdom of babylon and not the third as the Bible says. They were wrong though and had to accept the acuracy of the Bible.
As for Abraham, He descended from Shem and not from Ham.The latter had four children:
Canaan = Palestine
Cush = Ethiopia
Mizraim = Egypt
Put = Libia
And if You are going to acuse someone of plagiarism, then blame Satan who has been corrupting the true faith ever since He fooled Eve in the Garden of Eden.

BEAJ said...

Moses was at least partly based on Hammurabi.

Greg said...

Trying to debunk the New Testament has become quite the accepted sport.

Whereas the Old Testament has enjoyed centuries of truce.

I shudder to think what spirits will be awakened by this documentary as the wrath of Zion is unleashed!

molecule said...

I'll take good creative literature ... over any set of religious/ historical facts, any day.

In the end, there is only one force in History. It is the human mind. By comparison, all the bombs in the world are in effect, for nothing.

In the march of the human mind, through the good and bad of the literature of history, the paradoxes of reason and compassion encounter and energize the paradoxes of reality and humanity, and a self-reflexive process begins.

How then should these broad paradoxes ... be anchored down, and tied forever to some particular set of facts? ... "facts" which, for all the swagger bluster and sway of us manly men, can never be owned, by us, or by reality or by humanity.

Behold the poets! What remains behind is literature, as the means by which the human mind organizes itself, for its march through History, for its increasingly self-aware future.

How could it be any other way?

All science ... ALL science: medical science, military science, agricultural science, ... all science comes from poetry, which in turn springs from its bindings to the geometrics and harmonics of creation. Whence this poetic urge that rings with in us ... the Christian Beattitudes for example. What was this literature that was so precisely implanted, deep within the substrates of the human mind, before the stars were born. How alive are we, when we deny this calling?

More than any other embarrassment, the warmongers of this world fear the forward march of the self- organizing human mind. The more they realize that their resistance is futile, the further they go off the deep end ... exactly as good literature should have them do.

Mriana said...

Now here is the sad thing- PBS here where I lived, did not air The History of Disbelief even though I went to the office, which is on the state ran uni campus and requested it. I don't think there was enough people to request it in this fundie town. Not even Dawkins's Root of All Evil? was shown here nor did I know about it until I heard about it online.

Humpback Mountain or whatever the movie with the gay couple was (See? I know of the movie, but I don't quite know the title, due to this crap), and The Golden Compass were not allowed to be played in theatres here.

I would dearly love to see this show, but I seriously doubt it will be allowed to air due the A of G (Assembly of God) running this city. They and some other religious group even control PBS here. If you have any ideas on how we can influence my local PBS station to disregard the A of G and other Evangelicals in this area, in regards to this show, I would dearly love to hear them, just so we can get it to air in my area. This city and the Bible Belt as a whole needs to have shows like this.

I'm asking for help because I have been doing this single handedly for a while down here because I haven't found anyone to join me in the fight against censorship down here and articles like this: http://opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110010991 (She's a prof in Religious Studies at the Uni here and a Catholic) don't help.

I'm up against a lot down here. I'm sure she was one of many people who got The Golden Compass banned in this area and I'm sure she will probably be one of many religious people I will be up against concerning this show. There was even a big todo about Harry Potter, no surprise there, I'm sure. As you see, she does the "Help! Help! We're being persecuted!" number in her own words in that article.

I want to see this show aired on my PBS station, but I am up against a lot of people who value censorship and devalue ideas other than Christian doctrine (the above is just one example). Ideas?

I haven't gotten to see the movie The Golden Compass and the books can't be found down here, so a friend from another state mailed me the book. The gift was very nice. It was either that or go to Amazon online, as I did to acquire your books, Acharya.

I don't want to have to struggle and fight to find other means to see this show as I have other shows, like The History of Disbelief and Dawkins's Root of All Evil?. I want to be able to see it air on my local PBS station like any other city, instead of hunt for it, even if it is just clips, else where. It feels like I'm going underground just to get around the Evangelicals and I am personally tired of that. It is time that shows like this be aired in this area to break the religious delusions many people down here have. No one will be truly free to think for themselves until that happens and everyone who lives in this area will be affected by it one way or the other, whether they believe it or not.

There has to be a way for this show to be aired down here regardless of what seems like tremendous power of Evangelicals down here. I don't want this one to end up not airing here also all because of the religious, power, control freaks.

Anonymous said...

Blah-Blah-blah, blah, bhah, blah, blah-blah-blah.
Blah Blah blah,
Blah

Anonymous said...

I have studied astrology for over 30 years. I absolutely KNOW it to be TRUE. I also believe in esoteric science and Alien life.
With all that said I BELIEVE without a shadow of a doubt in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
My synopsis:
You are bound to this solar plane spinning on a karmic wheel, you will never leave until you reach purification. You will reincarnate and continually be the victims of your own crimes. If you murder someone you will come back to be murdered. What ever you do or say you will be on the receiving end."What you sow you will reap" This is Gods justice.
This solar plane does have Gods that rule by each planetary deity, each representing waring members in your soul. Until you learn the the testimony of Jesus Christ who was the last sacrifice made for you and practice his teachings you will never reach the heavens outside this solar plane. Jesus says to forgive and not retaliate against your brother which releases you from the karmic bond to that person. "Turn they cheek" "Vengeance is mine saith the LORD". When you fight against your brother you are only punishing yourself. When you do not retaliate then they will receive punishment from the LORD 10 fold.
I absolutely believe the Anti Christ ALIVE today and breeding it's misinformation AND DECEPTIONS.
The Antichrist must be fought and resisted on every front, for your fight is your soul and that of your brothers and sisters.
"Our warfare is not carnal but spiritual in nature for the pulling down of strongholds and every lofty thing that holds itself up against the true knowledge of GOD"
In my opinion Revelation will be seen between 2012 and 2025.
My prediction we will see the true beginnings between 2010-2015. When Pluto(death) reaches Aquarius (humanity) around 2020-2025 then you will see the destruction of most of humanity.
Right now Pluto is beginning in the sign of Capricorn (government)(earth)"reversals of kingdoms" "earthquakes in diverse places" until 2020
BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.
May the LOVE of the LORD be upon you!

Anonymous said...

Mriana,

Where the F do you live?

Anyway, you're better off, for the time being, just getting yourself and the people in your town to be more aware of how to use the internet to gain knowledge.

Anonymous said...

I have studied astrology for over 30 years. I absolutely KNOW it to be TRUE. I also believe in esoteric science and Alien life.
With all that said I BELIEVE without a shadow of a doubt in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
My synopsis:
You are bound to this solar plane spinning on a karmic wheel, you will never leave until you reach purification. You will reincarnate and continually be the victims of your own crimes. If you murder someone you will come back to be murdered. What ever you do or say you will be on the receiving end."What you sow you will reap" This is Gods justice.
This solar plane does have Gods that rule by each planetary deity, each representing waring members in your soul. Until you learn the the testimony of Jesus Christ who was the last sacrifice made for you and practice his teachings you will never reach the heavens outside this solar plane. Jesus says to forgive and not retaliate against your brother which releases you from the karmic bond to that person. "Turn they cheek" "Vengeance is mine saith the LORD". When you fight against your brother you are only punishing yourself. When you do not retaliate then they will receive punishment from the LORD 10 fold.
I absolutely believe the Anti Christ ALIVE today and breeding it's misinformation AND DECEPTIONS.
The Antichrist must be fought and resisted on every front, for your fight is your soul and that of your brothers and sisters.
"Our warfare is not carnal but spiritual in nature for the pulling down of strongholds and every lofty thing that holds itself up against the true knowledge of GOD"
In my opinion Revelation will be seen between 2012 and 2025.
My prediction we will see the true beginnings between 2010-2015. When Pluto(death) reaches Aquarius (humanity) around 2020-2025 then you will see the destruction of most of humanity.
Right now Pluto is beginning in the sign of Capricorn (government)(earth)"reversals of kingdoms" "earthquakes in diverse places" until 2020
BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.
May the LOVE of the LORD be upon you!

Mriana said...

A Course In Miracles,

I truly feel sorry for you. There is a whole lot more to put your trust in and find happiness and peace in than a myth. No, I'm not saying there is no god or that there is a god, but I will admit that I don't believe that the god of religion exists. All religions are human concepts, right down to their deity.

What I am saying is, that you can't put your trust in a piece of literature, such as miracle stories. While I agree there are some things written in the Bible and other religious texts that could be useful, even helpful to some, one should not have blind faith in such texts, characters, or religious doctrines either.

You mentioned the Bible so I will stick with that, since it seems that is where you may be given you mentioned the course on miracles and alike- 1 Cor 13 is an example of not only great literature, but no particular deity is mentioned. Love is a very powerful and useful emotion for one can have love for family, friends, spouse/partner, children, pets, even for compassion for the homeless person down the street. It can be our inner drive to change things (move mountains) too, even give us meaning, purpose, and peace in life.

The second one is the parable of the Good Samaritan (Lk 10:25-37), who did what he did without any expectation of reward or punishment. The story was not about God or Jesus, but rather one human doing something to help another human, irregardless of anything society might think. We can have good feelings when we help someone and even that can give us meaning in life. When what we did to help is successful it can bring happiness and joy, not just to ourselves, but to others too.

So these texts are not completely useless, but we cannot put our faith in fictional characters, such as Jesus, either. They are no more valuable than Aesop's Fables or Dr. Suess stories, which even these stories people can glean some value from and even learn something. The Lorax has always been one of my favourites and I think people can learn something from that book, but the Lorax was no messiah or god, just a character in the book who Seuss used to help tell a meaningful lesson.

The Bible is not the inerrant word of God either, which I don't think you were saying, but just in case... It is a text written by humans, just as the Tao is written by humans and granted it is possible to see what the human potential could be in these texts, such as the one above, but none of the miricles ever really happened. They are just stories, some with worthwhile lessons to them.

In fact, it leaves me without purpose for my life. If there is nothing else to us here on this planet, I might as well kill myself. There is no hope of ever finding peace of mind and happiness that won't go away in the next moment.

There is purpose, meaning, and reason in life without a belief in a deity, religion, or even Jesus. I highly recommend you read Robert Price's book The Reason Driven Life which is his response to the Evangelical apologist's book The Purpose Driven Life. Go on Amazon to get it if you have to, but I do recommend you read it. Bob Price is a Religious Humanist and an atheist who attends the Episcopal Church, as well as a former Baptist minister. He does not throw out religious texts, but he does put a human perspective on them.

For a view that is a little more religious, if you have a strong need for that or just want to read a Christian POV, I recommend John Shelby Spong (Why Christianity Must Change or Die and A New Christianity for a New World), Don Culpitt (Radical Theology, which has a chapter on Religious Humanism and After God: The Future of Religion, and Anthony Freeman (God In Us: A Case for Christian Humanism). These books have a different view on Christianity other than Fundamentalism or the traditional view. They are indeed about Christian Humanism and not your usual Christian apologists books.

There is a reason to live, even without religion. You don't have to kill yourself if you find yourself without religion. You can find peace of mind and happiness without religion. It's not impossible. However, just because one does not follow any religious doctrine or lives by any religious text does not mean they cannot study religion nor does it mean they cannot glean something from a passage in some religious text either, even Taoist and Buddhist texts. However, one needs to remember these texts are not the word of God, but rather the word of humans, myths humans created to tell a story of some sort.

We need to find meaning in life via living it to the best of our abilities and we should look within ourselves to find that meaning, purpose, peace, and happiness, because those things don't come from a book or religious doctrine. In fact, religious doctrine and dogma can be a source of misery, instead of peace and happiness.

Mriana said...

Anonymous said...
Mriana,

Where the F do you live?

Anyway, you're better off, for the time being, just getting yourself and the people in your town to be more aware of how to use the internet to gain knowledge.


BumF*** Missouri. lol Actually, if you look up Assembly of God and go to their main website you will see a contact button which slides open to reveal where they are located. That is the headquarters and the city they practically run. I really feel people should know just how bad bad can get and it's not just the movie "Jesus Camp" which came out of Missouri, it a totally different world than the rest of the U.S.

steve trueblue said...

Irresponsible of revolutionary zealots to destroy admittedly imperfect systems while providng nothing to replace them. Why not provide real Mc Coy Working Lay Gnosis with evidence in a few minutes.
To the calmly curious- For physical evidence of a second intelligence within yourself-Vivid Dreams onset, plus repeatable handtingles- search YouTube on LAY GNOSIS 1 BEGIN HERE site www.truebluehealer.com Regardless of beliefs-Even atheist testimonials, including doctors from 4 countries. 10-12 mins gets you started. A growing list of triggered 12 month gnostic veterans contactable.

steve trueblue said...

No contemporary record of TROY existed. The siege story was word of mouth for 500yrs! Always thought to be sheer Greek fantasy the city was "discovered" in 1870 the illiad enabling its location.Schliemann the magnificent 'fool'

Joe said...

It should be obvious at this juncture in time that the so-called Genesis (barishith) myth was nothing but a rehash of the Enuma Elish (creation story) of Babylonian/Sumerian origins. The idea of a single deity came about over many centuries as a condensed version of a multi-deity myth, originating in Sumer, then propagated in Egypt and later in the Indus valley area.

For some inexplicable reason, most of the world's current population has to have a Daddy-In-The-Sky. It's a shame that psychology is still in it's infancy stage; once it reaches adulthood perhaps human beings will make the effort to "...can't we just all get along?"

Until that happy day, the rest of us will remain slaves to governments whose laws are all based on religious nonsense instead of logical and rational reason. --jws

Acharya S said...

steve trueblue said...

No contemporary record of TROY existed. The siege story was word of mouth for 500yrs! Always thought to be sheer Greek fantasy the city was "discovered" in 1870 the illiad enabling its location.Schliemann the magnificent 'fool'


Yes, but just because a town with multiple layers was identified as "Troy" does not mean that the Iliad and Odyssey were historical accounts. The Bible mentions many real places, including Egypt. That fact doesn't make the Exodus or Moses real.

DoU12Rock said...

it's alright, it's alright, it's alright, HE MOVES IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS

Anonymous said...

The Bible is myth? I'm not so sure. Probably the events described in the Bible are mythical, as well as the characters in the stories. As you point out, many of the Bible's characters are drawn from the accounts of deities and legendary characters in older writings from the ancient Near East. However, there is something in the words and stories of the Bible that is, to me, mysterious. If you read and think about these stories over some period of time, you find, or at least I have, that they address the deepest levels and yearnings of human experience. Not only that, the stories seem to have the power to actually change how people feel about themselves, and about others, and those changes seem to in turn change how people behave. I don't believe that this transforming power, if you will, can be exclusively attributed to the willingness of people to be transformed. The effect seems to happen whether or not people desire it. No, there is something else present in these ancient stories that is active, dynamic and palpable. What it is, I don't know.

Among the legends I have heard about the Bible is the idea that it is a "closed book;" that there are many levels present in the stories that may be understood only by those who are spiritually prepared to receive them. I think that's true, and I think that we, as humans, don't really yet understand the Bible. At some point in the future, not far off, I think, we shall all understand what the Bible really means.

Mriana said...

Irresponsible of revolutionary zealots to destroy admittedly imperfect systems while providng nothing to replace them. Why not provide real Mc Coy Working Lay Gnosis with evidence in a few minutes.

That has been my complaint about Dawkins and Harris, not providing a replacement that is, but Lay Gnosis? *Mriana raises a questioning eyebrow*

Gnosis is Greek for knowledge, specifically esoteric knowledge of spiritual truth. Now this could be fine, except for one thing... That was how all this crap got started! To further expound on the definition Webster adds "held by the ancient Gnostics to be essential to salvation". "Essential to Salvation". Now I have a bit of a problem with that, esp given that Evangelicals have taken the idea of "salvation" to horrendous dogmatic ideology.

The New Testament was originally in Greek as well as the Gnostic Gospels. Now look what we have. A mixed up, mistranslated mess of whatever! And it all went back to Rome, where it was screwed up even more and Gnosticism was banished and nearly destroyed to extinction. The texts were translated to Latin, specifically the Vulgate, for the common people (vulgar). To further expound on this, King James screwed it up even more. And how the heck did the Hebrew word "almah" in Isaiah 7:14 get turned into "virgin" when it means young maiden or young woman and not virgin?

It was the translation to Greek, just so they could create some mythical Christian virgin birth story, which is basically the same as any other divine birth story, including and esp Egyptian. The Hebrew tradition of midrash, which admittedly is a wonderful literary tool, was twisted into something else, just as Gnosticism, and even Docetism, was.

Not to continue down this sordid path of the evolution of religion, but surely you can see where I am going with all of this. If humans can advance something, even literature into something beyond what it originally was and impose it on the "vulgar", they will do it and they have. Religion was and is a tool to control people. Just as an Evangelical preacher who preaches on "The Path of Salvation". So, now I've basically gone full circle as to why I have a problem with this idea of Gnosis, even Lay Gnosis. I think we can find our inner drive, inner human nature, divine spark or whatever one's choice of word is, without so called "spiritual truths" and/or anything "essential to salvation". Such a thing could put us right back to where we are now, with the creation of yet another religion. The might not be the intent, but humans seem to do that with such things.

Mriana said...

steve trueblue,

I went to that site just to see what you were talking about and got to the "voice switch" page where he is talking about holding your hands in such a manner. No, nothing happened to my hands when I heard the words, but I thought it was rather... um... well let's put it this way... I'm a skeptic. I had to try really hard to refrain from laughing, but that's me and I don't see it as being Gnosis, or at least not as I know it. Whatever floats your boat though and you're not harming anyone, have at it.

However, that's the second time you've posted that site with the same comments about it. Not sure if Acharya caught that or not. I know I just saw that, so who knows.

Jacqui said...

Dear Archarya,
Thank-you so much for sharing this information with the world. I look so forward to reading your updates. They have become part of my journey of discovery - an exciting ride so far! I'm learning to question everything. I no longer accept what the powers that be say (government, teachers, doctors etc)- I research and trust my intuition until I know the truth for myself. Reading and hearing what you have to say has had a huge impact in my life, so again thank-you.
Jacqui Conry (RSA)

DAVID said...

I reject anything claiming to be ultimate truth. Quantum physicists are now able to show us that the world is not as we think we see it, that truth is subjective. In a very real sense each of us creates our own reality. Call it The Spirit of The Universe or Mind, whatever you wish to, every human being has incredible power. The problem is that most folks have been programmed so well that they aren't able to see the endless possibilities life offers up to us. Without having had a shift of paradigm we live our lives in an illusion yet believe it to be real.
The Hindu concept of 'Maya' makes sense to me, so call me crazy. Some others do.

DA GRENADA FREE THINKER said...

You are doing great Mis Acharya S.
Keep it up.
Peace !!

j0 said...

as an astrologer for 20+ years i kept trying to deny the truth of christ even though it was blatantly true from that perspective. whether christ is historical isnt as important as if the message symbolised through his rebirth journeys is in fact the essence of the pisces age we live in. the walk of jesus is a perfect example of how in this age to find spiritual ascension and in fact see the kingdom of heaven and your creator.

HisOwnGod said...

To Course in Miracles, do not despair! The answer to the riddle is that everyone is god; there's nothing else to be. So jnow you have an open door to discover your purpose on earth, which is whatever you make it. You brought yourself here and you will leave in your own time, just like everyone else. It's a giant collaboration, but it is real, and like everyone and everything else, you are god.

Acharya S said...

DoU12Rock said...

it's alright, it's alright, it's alright, HE MOVES IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS


Ah, great song!

But...

Who's "HE?" Zeus? Hercules? Osiris?

Why not "SHE?" Could be Athena. Or Isis.

SHE MOVES IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS.

How do we know "HE" isn't an "IT?" Could be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. And why is IT "mysterious?" If WE are made in ITS image, we should be able to understand IT, which would mean that there are no mysteries.

But, I rather enjoy mysteries...

So, I will choose:

SHE MOVES IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS.

"SHE" would be me, of course, since I am One with the Cosmos. :)

How's that for a song title?

Mriana said...

How do we know "HE" isn't an "IT?"

*Mriana claps hands* You go, Acharya!

Roon said...

After living 63 years in seven countries and visiting many others I have come to the confirmed conviction that religion's sole purpose is to have the few controlling the many. To me all religions are evil but not the people that practice them from true belief. I could never say the same for their leaders who seem to be always involved in politics and power.
I was hit a second time by lightning nine years ago and was basically confined to my apartment with little money and almost constant physical problems. For a three year period I lived alone in Montreal and knew no one because I never went out but in the virtual world through internet I met many many people, some who became long term friends.
I have had intimate conversations for years with friends from countries all over the world who were of all major religions and beliefs. I had always been told that we can never understand the Oriental mind and I think that is a load of crap.
I have never had any problem talking with any of the Asians I know about anything even though the many Chinese I know are careful about what they speak of on the Internet with Big Brother listening in at random.
My conclusion is that for the most part people are good and really have no need for any organized religion. God lives in my heart and not in a church or a temple or a synagogue. My experience shows me that this is really the same for everyone. Why do we need religions to tell us how bad we are when people are inherently good? Mind control.

Anonymous said...

Techsyn said..........

Interpretations of History are just that Interpretations.

Just look at how many different interpretations there are of Egyptian History, yet not one is 100% fact, mainly due to the efforts of succeeding Pharaohs to destroy evidence of his predecessors.

No matter the interpretations of history one commonality in history is a Creation Story.

What we call myths at some point in the past had an origin in historic fact. The methods used to past on this historic fact were not infallible mainly word of mouth until writing became the method of record keeping.

My point is which came first the egg or the chicken, which creation account came first and which is copy?

If there was a Creator, did he have a plan of action, a purpose in his creation or was it as some assume just helter-skelter?

Why were so many willing to die, knowing that their belief in a resurrected Messiah was built on a lie?

Why if there is no plan are there so many diverse religions claiming that they offer the only plan, the only answer, could not a past historical fact be the basis.

I often wonder if maybe Immanuel Velikovsky in "Worlds In Collision" was right in stating that Myths are based on historical fact as interpreted by the different cultures witnessing the event.

Anonymous said...

Yassar Arafat was talking with Walter Kronkite in the seventies and told him there was no history of an Exodus in Egytian history. He said they have the most ancient historical records on earth. This is old news. There are many many more lies(Ooops!), revelations that will challenge your beliefs even more. The true nature and identity of God will shake you even more. It's too early for that to be revealed but soon enough it will. Of course, the establishment will take credit for that too.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

The Bible is myth? I'm not so sure. Probably the events described in the Bible are mythical, as well as the characters in the stories. As you point out, many of the Bible's characters are drawn from the accounts of deities and legendary characters in older writings from the ancient Near East. However, there is something in the words and stories of the Bible that is, to me, mysterious....

At some point in the future, not far off, I think, we shall all understand what the Bible really means.


Nothing mysterious there that we can't understand. A bunch of Jews, Hebrews and Israelites got together and confabulated a book that they deemed was "God's Word" in order to present themselves as the "chosen people," blah blah blah. Add a few mushrooms to the mix and - voila! - a "sacred text." (Oh, and by the way, MYTHS are magical in the way you are describing the Bible stories.)

Mystery solved - the Bible is perfectly understandable here and now by us puny little humans, since puny little humans wrote it in the first place.

And here's their motive, expressed by Marcus Ravage in Century Magazine:

"We made you the willing and unconscious bearers of our mission to the whole world, to the barbarous races of the earth, to the countless unborn generations. Without fully understanding what we were doing to you, you became the agents at large of our racial tradition, carrying our gospel to the unexplored ends of the earth.

"Our tribal customs have become the core of your moral code. Our tribal laws have furnished the basic groundwork of all your august constitutions and legal systems. Our legends and our folk-tales are the sacred lore which you croon to your infants. Our poets have filled your hymnals and your prayer-books. Our national history has become an indispensable part of the learning of your pastors and priests and scholars. Our kings, our statesmen, our prophets, our warriors are your heroes. Our ancient little country is your Holy Land. Our national literature is your Holy Bible. What our people thought and taught has become inextricably woven into your very speech and tradition, until no one among you can be called educated who is not familiar with our racial heritage.

"Jewish artisans and Jewish fishermen are your teachers and your saints, with countless statues carved in their image and innumerable cathedrals raised to their memories. A Jewish maiden is your ideal of motherhood and womanhood. A Jewish rebel-prophet is the central figure in your religious worship. We have pulled down your idols, cast aside your racial inheritance, and substituted for them our God and our traditions. No conquest in history can even remotely compare with this clean sweep of our conquest over you."

Terry G said...

People will choose to believe just about anything except Jesus Christ. Why choose Christ when they can walk around in total darkness with no responsibility for their actions and no accountability for their lives. What a sad way to live life... Don't be the fool --> Choose Jesus Christ!

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.
2 Timothy 4:3

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.
Psalm 14:1

Anonymous said...

Abraham and Sara - Brahma and Sarasvati - lots of similarities - Abraham's shifting claims that Sara is his sister/wife - Sarasvati is Brahma's 1/2 sister/wife for one.

EJ said...

If you think there was a Jesus and the Bible is anything more than a book of murder, rape, sodomy, child abuse, human sacrifice, and more...

go see Zeitgeist the movie:
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html
and visit
http://www.evilbible.com/

Anonymous said...

Acharya, I can't explain my faith, or anyone else's, to you. Faith can only be experienced. I have witnessed how contact with the Bible has changed lives. It changed MY life! Because I can't account for that in any way other than with faith, the Bible confirms its mystery and power for me.

Some Jews undoubtedly interpret the effect of their experience of God on the non-Jewish world as Marcus Ravage does, but not all do. Some Jews rather interpret their effect on the non-Jewish world as evidence that their God continues to move and act in the world, and that He reveals Himself differently at different times and places, to different peoples. Vive la difference! How boring and dull the world would be if we all believed the same things, and worshipped in the same way!

The wisest Jews know that they don't know everything about God's plan for the world, just as wise Christians and Muslims know that they do not. If it were possible to gather the wisest, holiest people from all the religions in one room, there would be no disagreements among them, because their humility would assure that they approached each other with supreme understanding and tolerance for each other's views.

I KNOW there is a God, and I hear Him speaking to me through the words and stories in the Bible. I also know that others have had the same experience. I hear God speaking in the wind, the rain, in symphonies, and in children's laughter. I see His face in the eyes of children, and in the faces of dying grandmothers. I know Him because I have loved, and because I am loved. Can I prove any of this? No! Is there any measurable evidence for these things? No! Yet, I know them to be true.

Today, at this moment, the world is threatened with the greatest evil it has ever known, and those without faith will be swept away by it like dust before a hurricane. Mankind will triumph in the end, but only because of the divine seed God planted in the world through us: the Son of Man.

DAVID said...

If 'God' is 'Spirit' it makes no sense to put a gender on god. I don't believe that God has a penis.
However, if the personage referred to as Jesus of Nazareth truly existed, I would speculate that he carried around an extremely huge one.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

Acharya, I can't explain my faith, or anyone else's, to you. Faith can only be experienced. I have witnessed how contact with the Bible has changed lives. It changed MY life! Because I can't account for that in any way other than with faith, the Bible confirms its mystery and power for me.

Some Jews undoubtedly interpret the effect of their experience of God on the non-Jewish world as Marcus Ravage does, but not all do. Some Jews rather interpret their effect on the non-Jewish world as evidence that their God continues to move and act in the world, and that He reveals Himself differently at different times and places, to different peoples. Vive la difference! How boring and dull the world would be if we all believed the same things, and worshipped in the same way!


I have no doubt that you are very sincere in your faith - and I know well what faith is.

However, your faith and your experience are entirely dependent on the circumstances of your birth, i.e., what era and location you were born into. If you had been born in India, chances are you would be here singing the praises of the Indian god Krishna as the true revelation of Godhead. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia, you would likely be attempting to convince me that Islam is the one true faith. If you had been born in China, you might be regaling me with facts about Confucius, Lao Tzu or possibly Buddha.

If you had been born in the ancient world, in Greece or Rome, we would be discussing the reality of Zeus or Jupiter.

Your "faith" is a result of conditioning, not of ultimate reality. It is not, therefore, something that others in the world will perceive in the same manner. And Marcus Ravage had it right: Christianity was created by MEN in order to spread their TRIBAL god around the world in an act of aggression, hegemony and cultural dominance. That you are fervently conditioned by this propaganda should come as no surprise in consideration of the effort put into it.

Take care.

Mriana said...

Terry G said...
People will choose to believe just about anything except Jesus Christ. Why choose Christ when they can walk around in total darkness with no responsibility for their actions and no accountability for their lives. What a sad way to live life... Don't be the fool --> Choose Jesus Christ!

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.
2 Timothy 4:3

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.
Psalm 14:1


By your definition, there are millions of fools out there because there are people who believe in a god, but not Jesus- ie Hindu, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists, Jainists... The list goes on and on. Are they all fools?

What you are saying is a judgement call made by you, not some deity. Do you really believe this what your deity wants? Do you really believe they are in the dark since they don't believe as you do? If so, I would say your deity isn't worth worshipping and even a Buddhist would debate that darkness bit with you. Not only that, his religious beliefs are just as worthy of consideration, if not even more because he's not hitting people over the head with it. There is something to be said for the Buddhists' right speech, right thinking, right action, etc There is also something to be said for the Taoists' ways of not forcing people to conform to their way of thinking.

If I only had two choices and no others, in which I had to follow and no other- Christianity or Taoism/Buddhism I'd go with the Eastern Religion. Luckily, I have far more choices than that and I prefer to follow my own logic and reasoning concerning what I believe and not blindly follow what someone insists I should believe.

A Course In Miracles said...

And yet, there is something entirely different that escapes any conceptual discussion here and anywhere. Jesus, as well as any other figure in this fabricated world of perception is not what the body's eyes see. The body's eyes do not see anything. Any conclusion based on what they tell us must be wrong. It is wrong today as it was 2000 years ago. The extent to which we need and want to believe what we are told by physical sight was the same for any human being 2000 years ago. Yet Jesus made it very clear that He is not what a body is or sees. Therefore, this discussion is just another meaningless footnote in this grand illusion of time and space.

Why spend time disproving or proving that Jesus was actually walking the earth while we could simply go back to what is said in his most fundamental ideas?

Or ask yourself, how a document like A Course In Miracles came to be available here in this time frame. I bet that anyone taking a serious look at it, would have to admit that it cannot possibly be of human origin. Then what? Then we don't know, just as we don't know anything anyhow. We only think we know.

Cheers,
Alban

Acharya S said...

A Course In Miracles said...

And yet, there is something entirely different that escapes any conceptual discussion here and anywhere. Jesus, as well as any other figure in this fabricated world of perception is not what the body's eyes see. The body's eyes do not see anything. Any conclusion based on what they tell us must be wrong. It is wrong today as it was 2000 years ago. The extent to which we need and want to believe what we are told by physical sight was the same for any human being 2000 years ago. Yet Jesus made it very clear that He is not what a body is or sees. Therefore, this discussion is just another meaningless footnote in this grand illusion of time and space.

Why spend time disproving or proving that Jesus was actually walking the earth while we could simply go back to what is said in his most fundamental ideas?

Or ask yourself, how a document like A Course In Miracles came to be available here in this time frame. I bet that anyone taking a serious look at it, would have to admit that it cannot possibly be of human origin. Then what? Then we don't know, just as we don't know anything anyhow. We only think we know.


There is no mystery as to how "A Course in Miracles" came about: It came through the mind of a woman who in my opinion was very disturbed. She had a wild imagination, and she wrote a book. Every fiction book comes in the same manner.

The point is not that we are debating whether or not Jesus walked the earth. We are saying that "Jesus Christ" is a sun god rehashed by Jews bent on spreading their religion. The point, then, is the meaning behind the myth, which is essentially what is known as astrotheology and which is fascinating and important in and of itself, as it conveys brilliant knowledge of our world around us from the most ancient times.

In that regard, "Jesus" clearly didn't say anything, unless you view the sun as having something to "say."

A Course In Miracles said...

When you say, Acharya, that "there is no mystery as to how 'A Course in Miracles' came about: It came through the mind of a woman who in my opinion was very disturbed. She had a wild imagination, and she wrote a book...", you also say that a document with hundreds of pages in blanc verse, while still offering a modern and very readable text is the product of human imagination. That is your choice, and maybe you also say that there is nothing divine in music like that written by Beethoven and Mozart or Bach.

It still remains an idea that humans in all ages found a contact with a transcendent reality that allowed them insights and revelations that no one can explain by merely looking at the limitations of human ingenuity.

And in all your astrology you would have to admit in your final analysis that, like everyone else, you are dealing with ideas, and nothing but ideas. What criterion do you use for making a decision about which of your ideas are true?

And you are still faced with the question of what it all means. Do you know? We learn about whatever, we correlate, we refer, we infer, but we do not "know" a single thing about this world or this universe that we understand. We do not see beyond our own mind.

Acharya S said...

A Course In Miracles said...

When you say, Acharya, that "there is no mystery as to how 'A Course in Miracles' came about: It came through the mind of a woman who in my opinion was very disturbed. She had a wild imagination, and she wrote a book...", you also say that a document with hundreds of pages in blanc verse, while still offering a modern and very readable text is the product of human imagination. That is your choice, and maybe you also say that there is nothing divine in music like that written by Beethoven and Mozart or Bach.

It still remains an idea that humans in all ages found a contact with a transcendent reality that allowed them insights and revelations that no one can explain by merely looking at the limitations of human ingenuity.

And in all your astrology you would have to admit in your final analysis that, like everyone else, you are dealing with ideas, and nothing but ideas. What criterion do you use for making a decision about which of your ideas are true?

And you are still faced with the question of what it all means. Do you know? We learn about whatever, we correlate, we refer, we infer, but we do not "know" a single thing about this world or this universe that we understand. We do not see beyond our own mind.


First of all, I would never compare "A Course in Miracles," with its depraved sexism and insane father-obsession, to Beethoven, Bach or Mozart, so that's a straw-man argument.

"My astrology" - and what "astrology" would that be? I said astrotheology, not astrology, so that would be another inaccuracy.

Astrotheology is quite simple: It's the observation of tangible, third-dimensional phenomena such as the sun, moon, stars, constellations, planets, etc., put within a sacred context. It is not "my" astrotheology - it is the basis of the religions of ancient Egypt and Peru, among many others. I find these ancient cultures who in significant part based their entire civilizations upon astrotheology to be quite fascinating, when the science behind their observations is understood.

Doug said...

Always one step ahead Acharya. Love your work. It's always interesting to note how defensive "religious" people become when confronted with other possibilities. As they say "your mind is like a parachute - works best when it's open". Most religious believers have their parachute firmly packed away and wonder why life is just passing them by so quickly.

Mriana said...

Here's what I want to know from all you Evangelical Jesus Lovers who drop in on this blog to harass and force conversion in some case, what makes this Jesus character better than Buddha, the Way (Tao), Amaterasu (the Shinto Sun goddess and Kami leader), [Hari] Krishna, other incarnations of Vishnu, incarnations of Shiva, Brahma, Confusius, the 3 deities of Korean Shamanism, (Mriana takes a deep breath) Ahura Mazda (Zoroastrian's creator god meaning 'Wise Lord'), pneumatic (Gnostic for an awakened person), Whope (Lakota White Buffalo Cow woman), Maka (Mother Earth), Wakan Tanka (The Great Spirit), and many others?

What makes Jesus better than Joshua (his predicessor), Ba'al, Horus, Amen-Ra, Thor, Zeus, etc?

How are you so certain that none of these other deities and philosophies don't do the same thing for people as "Jesus" does for you? Have you even stopped to ask them about their deity and/or philosophy and how it helps them through life? Have you ever asked a Humanist what their philosophy does for them? How are you so certain that your faith in "Jesus" is better than theirs, so much so that you have to bully them into your belief system? Have you really stopped long enough to truly investigate your saviour yourself to truly know He is the one and only saviour for everyone and if He is really and truly a saviour?

I would like to truly rational, well thought out, and well educated answers to all those questions I just asked. Not some vague and/or irrational uneducated answer. I challenge anyone to give rational, educated, and well thought out answers to those questions. I don't think any of you can do it, because all I'm hearing right now is, "My God is better than your god/disbelief." IF any of us non-theists, who have done our research and educated ourselves, can poke holes in the answer or if it is based on faith alone or is what your preacher or parents told you, it is probably not a rational, well educated, or well thought out answer.

No, I'm not asking you to prove God exists, I'm asking you why is Jesus better than any other deity or better than disbelief and how do you know for sure Jesus was not any more real than any other character that is worshipped. "The Bible tells us so" is not an answer either, because that was a book written and inspired by man. IF that is your answer, then go out and do some research before you answer the above questions. Neither is "Because God said so" or "Jesus removes pain and suffering" or what have you, either. Those answers can be trumped, not with disbelief alone, but also by any other modern religious philosophy. As Acharya said, it all depends on what culture you were born into and raised. Krishna is no different than Christ, and Abraham is no different than Brahma, if you do your research honestly and with an open mind.

Anonymous said...

I am aware of the influence of the culture in which I grew up on on the development of my convictions about the Christian message. My disagreement with your assessment of my and others' Christian faith rests in your assertion that it is entirely the result of that cultural matrix. Many who have embraced the Christian message were not exposed to it as children, were raised in an environment hostile to it, or were even previously vehemently opposed to it! How does one account for that? I can't. I have heard it argued that Christianity is so pervasive in our culture, particularly in America, that one unconsciously absorbs it through his cultural pores, as it were. Then, when the conditions for his conversion are right, say, after a serious challenge to his previous belief system or life circumstances, the unconsciously absorbed cultural Christianity takes over. I don't buy that argument. Contemporary American culture is pagan, not Christian. Most American young people, for example, are worshippers of Dionysius, Mars and Jupiter, not Christ. Moreover, two people from identical circumstances, such as being brought up in an environment hostile to Christianity, can have opposite reactions to it. One will embrace it, and the other will reject it. Still others will only partially reject or accept it.

My own case is typical. I was raised in a working-class family, an only child, and neither of my parents were Christians. My father was an atheist who read Bertrand Russell, Eric Fromm and Karl Marx. My mother was raised in a Catholic family but rejected the Church in her teens. We never attended any church regularly, though my mother thought it necessary to expose me to Protestant Christianity for the sake of, I don't know, appearances. We attended a Presbyterian church for awhile when I was a boy. I underwent some catechetical instruction in Presbyterian Calvinism, but found it very bizarre and unbelievable, and when my parents saw that I wasn't responding to it, we stopped attending the church. I had no more exposure to Christianity until, when I was a junior at college, I had a chance to study in Europe. I attended a music conservatory in Rome, Italy, for three years. The Romans, though they have hosted the Catholic Church for 1500 years, or perhaps BECAUSE of that, are very, very anticlerical and anti-Christian. Yet, in Rome I converted to Catholicism. However, I was never fully convinced of the truth of ALL of the Church's teachings, and about a decade later I left the Church. Since then, for more than thirty years, I have attended Catholic services only about a dozen times.

I suppose the foregoing would group me in the "partially accepting and partially rejecting" category I wrote above. I now believe that Christ's message was appropriated by the "Church" as a means of political and social control and then by the Roman state for the same purpose in the time of Constantine. It has remained "captive" to the Church and all succeeding states ever since. Yet, even as a "captive" of the forces that rule this world, Christ continues to draw people to Him and His message.

I therefore believe that Christ's message has remained independent of the forces that appropriated it long ago, and is accomplishing the purpose for which it was intended, even though it moves through humanity in secret, converting one human heart and mind at a time; changing and influencing one life at a time. Beyond the horror and destruction of outward events, Christ has been acting like leaven in the mass of humanity for two millennia, working behind the scenes and silently changing outcomes, thoughts and attitudes. Even those who think they are working against Him are accomplishing His purpose, in spite of themselves.

All the religions of the past and present are really the SAME religion. That is, they are no religion at all, because they are all about humanity's access to the divine, which needs no religion. All humans are about to realize that all their religions and beliefs are encompassed in what Christ taught. His teachings showed us how to draw near to the Father, to the divine, which is what all religions are about. Christianity is not what Christ taught. He taught the Kingdom of Heaven: life with the Father. We are all going home, at last.

Acharya S said...

Anonymous said...

I am aware of the influence of the culture in which I grew up on on the development of my convictions about the Christian message. My disagreement with your assessment of my and others' Christian faith rests in your assertion that it is entirely the result of that cultural matrix. Many who have embraced the Christian message were not exposed to it as children, were raised in an environment hostile to it, or were even previously vehemently opposed to it! How does one account for that? I can't. I have heard it argued that Christianity is so pervasive in our culture, particularly in America, that one unconsciously absorbs it through his cultural pores, as it were. Then, when the conditions for his conversion are right, say, after a serious challenge to his previous belief system or life circumstances, the unconsciously absorbed cultural Christianity takes over. I don't buy that argument. Contemporary American culture is pagan, not Christian. Most American young people, for example, are worshippers of Dionysius, Mars and Jupiter, not Christ. Moreover, two people from identical circumstances, such as being brought up in an environment hostile to Christianity, can have opposite reactions to it. One will embrace it, and the other will reject it. Still others will only partially reject or accept it.


That's fine, but it's still a CHOICE and not the ultimate reality that we must all believe in, any more than is Krishna or Buddha. In other words, again, "Jesus Christ" and Christianity are CULTURAL ARTIFACTS created by human beings, regardless of how a person has come to believe in them.

The American culture is indeed highly Christian. Most of the youth have never heard of Dionysus and the rest, so I assume you are using their names metaphorically, making a judgment call that the American youth are hedonistic. 80% of the populace calls itself CHRISTIAN, so, naturally, the herd mentality would cause most people born and raised here to become Christian. Such an experience is generally not the result of a reasoned decision based on logical and rationality. As for you own decision, I believe you've answered it in your final paragraph:

"We are all going home, at last."

You are apparently uncomfortable on planet Earth and have some need for a giant father figure in the sky. For those of us who are already at home on Earth and have no such need, Christianity remains irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

I have to share my 2 cents on this nonsense:

"Contemporary American culture is pagan, not Christian. Most American young people, for example, are worshippers of Dionysus, Mars and Jupiter, not Christ."

- This is a blatant disregard for the facts, most Americans do *NOT* even know who Dionysus, Mars and Jupiter ARE!!!

Many Americans are "Christian" by default. The country is so drenched in it and it's the popular thing to be. They have their own TV Channel for Christ's sakes who are you trying to fool here? Where's the channel for Hindu's or Freethinkers?

Had it not been for Constantine, you wouldn't be Christian at all because you would probably never have heard of it.

You haven't seen the movie "The God who wasn't there." There's a scene where they go around asking Christians if they know anything about Dionysus, Mithra, Osiris, Horus, Isis, Attis etc none of them knew anything about them - never even heard of them.

I really enjoyed the comment by Acharya "For those of us who are already at home on Earth and have no such need, Christianity remains irrelevant."

That comment summed it up nicely. Anonymous, you should read "Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ"

22

Alban, Teacher of God said...

Acharya says to Anonymous: "That's fine, but it's still a CHOICE and not the ultimate reality that we must all believe in, any more than is Krishna or Buddha. In other words, again, "Jesus Christ" and Christianity are CULTURAL ARTIFACTS created by human beings, regardless of how a person has come to believe in them."

Do you disregard the possibility of an ultimate reality altogether?

Acharya S said...

Alban said...

Acharya says to Anonymous: "That's fine, but it's still a CHOICE and not the ultimate reality that we must all believe in, any more than is Krishna or Buddha. In other words, again, "Jesus Christ" and Christianity are CULTURAL ARTIFACTS created by human beings, regardless of how a person has come to believe in them."

Do you disregard the possibility of an ultimate reality altogether?


Any "ultimate reality" would have no shape, form or color but would encompass all shapes, forms and colors. Hence, it could not be a Jewish man, or an Indian man, or an Arab man. Or a Japanese woman. Or a Cosmic Porcupine, or anything else the human mind has made up.

The "ultimate reality" would therefore be No Thing, which would paradoxically be a non-reality.

Mriana said...

"Ultimate reality"? Never heard of such a thing. At least, I don't think I have. Now Dionysus I've heard of, as well as many others, and was surprised people in the "God Who Was Never There" clip online haven't heard of him or the others. Now why do I have a feeling the people asked about Dionysus would know what an "ultimate reality" is? *rolling eyes* Whatever it is, it sounds like one of those vague human concepts that mean nothing until meaning is attached to the words. Either that or some sort of SciFi terminology, but in Trek, it was an alternate mirror universe, which was much different than what Acharya mentioned in her post of an "ultimate universe". Her definition sounds almost like my thoughts on god (lower case intentional) IF there is a god.

Go ahead. I don't mind being the comic relief in this instance.

shakeitup said...

“Most American young people, for example, are worshippers of Dionysius, Mars and Jupiter, not Christ”

Well. You are either quite dishonest or quite delusional. Which one?
I’ve traveled a bit of this county and maybe there is some place where this is true, so, to be fair, I’ll have to ask you where, very specifically, is this place? Give us the names of any city in the USA where we could find even 2% of the youth that have a clue as to who Dionysius is. Most would know Mars and Jupiter as planets. Unless you meant Mars the candy company; some people seem to worship chocolate.

You wrote “Beyond the horror and destruction of outward events, Christ has been acting like leaven in the mass of humanity for two millennia, working behind the scenes and silently changing outcomes, thoughts and attitudes.”

Why is this happening behind the scenes, silently? Is that why Mars and Jupiter are getting all the credit from the young kids in your delusional city. If Jesus would just show up in person and do a few of his magic tricks like the one where he walks up the side of a wall.. oh wait … never mind that was Chriss Angel that did that… Ummm… I have to tell you anonymous, the bar has been raised for magic tricks these days so whether its Christ or Chriss , the magic tricks or miracles will have to be pretty good. I’m not going to throw a few bucks into any magician’s tip jar for doing a “miracle” behind the scenes silently. And if your godman wants to be adored for all eternity, he better at least be good enough for the Vegas strip. Otherwise the youth will probably go back to the mighty Dionysius (whose spoon bending trick is getting rather old).

shakeitup said...

The preceeding post was for anonymous 2:40 am

Alban, Teacher of God said...

Sorry for not identifying myself correctly at first. I wrote my first three comments under the name "A Course In Miracles".

Returning back to this state of formlessness is to me, what "Christianity" is all about, in fact, in any faith tradition one can find this idea, because there have been individuals that realized that goal. In that sense the idea of gender is quite irrelevant in that regard. You accuse "A Course In Miracles" of sexism, and say it is obsessed with the idea of Father. When I let it say what it says, I realize that it talks to me about this transcendent reality, and is not concerned with establishing an identity in space/time. In that sense "Father" is used to represent an idea, the idea of God. It doesn't try to call it something else, although other terms are used, like "Source" or "Cause".

My point is, why not admit that that expression is used for this idea since a long time? Why change it, when any word must and will always fail to tell us what it REALLY is? If it is there for me to experience, I do not need a "politically correct" phrase, but rather admit to my necessity to let go of all ideas I may have about God, about my Father.

Also, given a transcendent reality, it must be possible to be in contact with it. That is included in your statement that it would encompass everything, isn't it?

Mriana said...

some people seem to worship chocolate.

Oo! Oo! I do! I've never met a chocolate I didn't like and besides that, chocolate cures everything! ;)

Mriana said...

OK getting serious here for it is time for a reality check:

Alban, Teacher of God, what is your obsession with a Father figure? Your post seems like you are obsessed with a daddy in the sky. You also seem to contradict yourself too- first you say you let go of all concepts (ideas) you have of God, then you go right back to saying Father. What is it? Which is it? It seems to me you haven't let go of your God concept, but rather expounded upon it.

IF, as Spong says, it is ruach (Hebrew for wind, which became a synonym for spirit) externally and even nephesh (breath of life) internally, then how can it have a gender at all? IF it is formless, without mass, and without gender, you cannot say it is a father, BUT one could say, as Spong does, it is the source of all life.

Thus nephesh could very well be the very first breath a baby takes outside the mother's womb, which, if we were to go into the scientific realm, would be oxygen. Oxygen is the source of life for non-plant life and carbon dioxide for plant life. Neither can be seen, but it's affects can be felt/experienced through some if not all of our senses. When it is the wind, the effects can be also be felt, but it cannot be actually seen. You see the trees rustle, but you don't actually see the wind. Thus you see its effects and its affect is lifegiving as well as life destroying. Oxygen and carbon dioxide are both the source of life for all living things. We give carbon dioxide to plants, which in turn they give us oxygen. It is a symbiotic relationship for without CO2 there is no oxygen in return. Too much of one or the other cause death of one if not both, as does too little.

While I do not believe in the god of religion, I can see Spong's view of a deity more plausible, as well as more rational. The only real objection I have with his view of a deity, is that even Spong calls his god concept He, as though he stopped short of thinking beyond what the wind and breath actually are, for neither have any gender, as far as we know (I'll clarify in a minute). He is a brilliant man and has taken an astounding view of Xianity, even though there are some things as a non-theist that I can't agree with him.

However, his view of the wind and breath could be, IMO, a plausible god concept, even on a scientific level, for without oxygen and carbon dioxide, there would be no life on this planet. The two are ying and yang, so to speak. One maybe feminine and the other masculine, but we cannot know, and such concept of male and female are human concepts, yet at the same time, as the Wiccans insist, everything has male and female, in order to procreate. So on one level we cannot get away from the idea of having both, yet we do not know which one is which for even some species on this planet have the male carry the young and give birth (seahorses are one example).

So, IF you are going to have a god concept, why does it have to be male? Why can't it be an it? For IF any deity or deities exist, we cannot know what it is- gender wise at least. For all we know, oxygen and carbon dioxide are the source of all life and are the ying and yang, but we hardly know which is male and which is female. They could be both transgendered, like at least one species on this planet that is reptilian or amphibian. I forget what the name of the species is, but when there are too few males, females start changing their sex in order to procreate. In a sense, they are both male and female. Even plants have both male and female characteristics.

So, just what exactly is this insistance that it be a father figure? Why is it you have a view that it is male? No, I am not talking about being politically correct, I am talking about the reality of things here on earth and the reality is, you cannot have one without the other and even in species that are both, you still don't have one without the other- theorectically at least. So, how can a deity create solely by being male alone? It makes no rational or scientific sense. You either have to be polytheistic or have a single deity that is both, yet neither. Thus, the terms "He" and "Father" cannot possibly apply. Naturalistically, it would have to be both OR at the very least, there has to be a male and female, which, since it has no essence (in a Buddhist sense, I suppose, but also in form and mass), we cannot determine which is which.

Anonymous said...

Acharya

I've been a fan of yours for years, and I have all your books. Excellent scholarship!

Meanwhile a HUGE BRAVO to PBS and producer Paula Apsell for having the courage to air a documentary on a subject that touches the collective nerves of much of humanity.

Who knows, maybe we can discredit ALL religious b...sh.. before the various flavours annihilate each other, as well as us innocent bystanders in the process.

Keep up your great work!

Peace and love.

A Canadian admirer

Goose said...

Bravo to PBS -- I will be curious to see how widely the show is banned in Bush-God America.

In regards to the "ultimate reality" I believe the Universe is mechanical, i.e. everything must follow the laws of physics. If there is a higher intelligence it is chained to physics, just like we are. We attribute the supernatural to the things we can't explain, and there is a LOT we still can't explain. But based on the discoveries of the past 100+ years I'm betting that what people now attribute to a deity will soon be explained away.

As for religion, it evolves just like everything else. It started with primitive sun worship and then was shaped and refined by early civilizations.

I suspected something was bad wrong with Christianity as a teen in 1975, however I couldn't nail it until after I studied Acharya's work in 2003.

As for faith, defining reality, etc. -- all that is a personal experience and the cosmos couldn't care less. Simply put, the Universe is mechanical -- what is, is. What isn't, isn't.

Also, there should be a distinction between a myth and a downright lie. A myth is some fun story you tell at a campfire. A lie is an intentional deception. Let's be honest -- religion is a lie and to have faith in a lie ultimately leads to a dysfunctional and irrational civilization. It's like during the dying throes of the Aztec Empire -- they just sacrificed more people. Not a very sound policy. Now, we see it again in Bush's Great Crusade.

grampadave said...

The discussion of myths and legends brings to mind the (perhaps apocryphal) story of the native American shaman who prefaced his stories with something to the effect of: "This may not have actually happened; nonetheless it is true."
It's clear that myths and legends are oft intended to convey moral principles or ideas which are deemed important to the maintenance of a given society or of its social/tribal identity. Unfortunately, those who are able only to think concretely cannot grasp the abstract meanings of these myths/legends.

grampadave said...

Every day of my life I thank God that I'm an atheist.

shakeitup said...

“Also, there should be a distinction between a myth and a downright lie. A myth is some fun story you tell at a campfire. A lie is an intentional deception. Let's be honest -- religion is a lie “

Excellent point. It is only in the last 2-3years that I finally got it. For most of my adult life I tried explain all the incongruities as misinterpretations; perhaps some idiomatic expression in Aramaic or Hebrew couldn’t be understood by scholars and interpreters centuries later.
Now I see it as a history of organized crime. The Buy Bull’s sole purpose, was to keep the masses from questioning the upper levels of the priesthoods (Jewish and Catholic, Muslim etc.) and ensuring the masses understood that their life did not belong to themselves. There was a brief period of time around the American Revolution that men could see themselves as their own sovereign being, they belonged to themselves and not the government or religion. That didn’t last.
The churches and the politicians , strange bedfellows that they are, quickly righted their pirate ships and by Lincoln’s time had once again convinced the citizens that their lives must be available for unquestioning sacrifice for a higher cause. The sacrificial mind is cultivated by both churches and the “royalty” of nations.
“Ask not what the Bushes can do for you, ask what you can do for the Bushes.”
Or Kennedys if you prefer. Either way the higher priesthoods benefit from the citizen’s submission to authority, if it weren’t for the imaginary straw god created by organized crime, the citizens would revolt. Like all con games, the sucker hasn't got a clue. The winnings get divided amongst the con men. Been that way for thousands of years. Yes, religion is an intentional deception , a lie.

Goose said...

Wow, shakeitup, excellent post. It took me YEARS to unravel all the lies and come to the same conclusions as you. We are so firmly buried under lies, cons, and deceptions that most people never dig out. Also, the rewards for conformity are high -- when you die you get a mansion on streets paved with gold, or 99 virgins, or whatever. If you fail to conform, you burn for eternity in a lake of fire. Those ancient priests and government bureaucrats really had to throw out some major crap on the masses in order to subjugate them. Of course, non conformism will dishonor your family and make you unpatriotic, yada yada, so mothers - send your sons to the Persian Gulf and we'll pay for the body bag. You're right, the whole thing is extremely ugly.

LukeAir2008 said...

Abraham and the Exodus are not solar myths. The fact that these characters and events spring up within other cultures/religions only corroborates their truth. Obviously other languages and cultures will use different names but they all have the same original source. This same article says there is no evidence for an historical Jesus. What? Even though the Jewish (non-christian) historian Josephus wrote about him? The public are being lied to and misled once again by the ruling Elite.

LukeAir2008 said...

Goose: Bush-God America? Oh yes, the born again christian Pres. George Bush. The same George Bush who is a member of Skull and Bones (publicly admitted).The same George Bush who lied about WMD in Iraq. The same George Bush who has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. I would seriously question all that you think you know!

Acharya S said...

LukeAir2008 said...

Abraham and the Exodus are not solar myths. The fact that these characters and events spring up within other cultures/religions only corroborates their truth. Obviously other languages and cultures will use different names but they all have the same original source. This same article says there is no evidence for an historical Jesus. What? Even though the Jewish (non-christian) historian Josephus wrote about him? The public are being lied to and misled once again by the ruling Elite.


No one is saying that "Abraham and the Exodus are solar myths." However, from actually studying the subject in depth, it is evident that Abraham is quite likely a mythical rehash of the Indian god Brahma, and that the Exodus was not a historical event. Yes, the "same original source" would be astromythology.

The non-Christian sources, including Josephus, are worthless in establishing a historical Jesus. See my articles:

The Jesus Forgery: Josephus Untangled
Pliny, Suetonius, Tacitus: No Proof of Jesus

See also my books:

The Christ Conspiracy
Suns of God
Who Was Jesus?

Yes, we've been lied to all right by the ruling elite - ESPECIALLY when it comes to religion. They have actively worked to pass off fairytales as "true stories," and that includes much of the Bible.

I repeat the admissions from Marcus Ravage in his article "A Real Case Against the Jews." Please pay close attention to what he is saying, as the hegemony he depicts represents THE REAL LIES BY THE RULING ELITE:

"We made you the willing and unconscious bearers of our mission to the whole world, to the barbarous races of the earth, to the countless unborn generations. Without fully understanding what we were doing to you, you became the agents at large of our racial tradition, carrying our gospel to the unexplored ends of the earth.

"Our tribal customs have become the core of your moral code. Our tribal laws have furnished the basic groundwork of all your august constitutions and legal systems. Our legends and our folk-tales are the sacred lore which you croon to your infants. Our poets have filled your hymnals and your prayer-books. Our national history has become an indispensable part of the learning of your pastors and priests and scholars. Our kings, our statesmen, our prophets, our warriors are your heroes. Our ancient little country is your Holy Land. Our national literature is your Holy Bible. What our people thought and taught has become inextricably woven into your very speech and tradition, until no one among you can be called educated who is not familiar with our racial heritage.

"Jewish artisans and Jewish fishermen are your teachers and your saints, with countless statues carved in their image and innumerable cathedrals raised to their memories. A Jewish maiden is your ideal of motherhood and womanhood. A Jewish rebel-prophet is the central figure in your religious worship. We have pulled down your idols, cast aside your racial inheritance, and substituted for them our God and our traditions. No conquest in history can even remotely compare with this clean sweep of our conquest over you."

Goose said...

Wow, there have been some excellent comments on this discussion thread. Humbly, I'd like to make one more statement on myths and legends, and then I'll crawl back into my hole. The point being, myths and legends are wonderful -- they enrich our lives and culture, and even teach us good lessons. Yes, some incorporate varying degrees of truth and history. I love Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, and all the other crazy traditions that keep our lives interesting -- they are loads of fun. But, as someone already mentioned, the line is drawn when myths are presented as unquestionable fact. People call this "belief" and "truth," etc... but once a person force-rationalizes religious lies they then create their own reality and begin to force-rationalize everything else, like war, environmental ruin, etc. This is the great gift that religion gives us -- institutionalized insanity. Would people still be screwed up without religion? Sure, but at least they wouldn't use bizarre stories to justify their behavior, and they might have a better chance of coming to grips with their own issues and the dying world around them.

Alban, Teacher of God said...

@ Mriana:

Your idea with oxygen and CO2 does not apply in my mind, because wind does not equalize oxygen and CO2. And more important, the Source of life would have to include a little more than oxygen and CO2.

As I pointed out before, when I speak of Father, I am am not speaking of something that has a gender identity. For me the idea of Father is the idea of SOURCE or HOME or CAUSE, our home, and obviously we are not from here. Or what if I said God is energy, love, light? Maybe then it would not occur to you that I imply a gender identity, or the childish idea of a daddy in the sky. Yet when God is energy, love, light as a first cause, we would have to be that, and not bodies. Yet what are we even as bodies? Did we not all see that we are all space, and light, if electrons and protons are fundamentally light, and then particles when we want to see them as that, but never both at the same time?

An idea would not have a gender identity, would it? Maybe you can live with the idea that God is an idea about you, meaning that you are infinitely more than you can think of. Yet the idea about this is not it. Therefore, any concept about God is meaningless. It is not it. Therefore, your insistence that anyone uses a particular one, tells you that you believe that truth or reality can be grasped by a concept, which is not true. A concept is not it.

Mriana said...

OK, Alban. It sounds sadistic, but let's say your source of oxygen were suddenly taken away. We'll just see if you don't beg and plead with the "oxygen deity" to give you life again. You'd be begging to breathe again, I'm sure.

So what else is the wind if it's primary chemical/the majority of the chemicals is not oxygen?

An idea would not have a gender identity, would it? Maybe you can live with the idea that God is an idea about you, meaning that you are infinitely more than you can think of.

About me? I said it was a human concept, therefore it isn't about me, but rather what humans think is a deity.

Yet the idea about this is not it. Therefore, any concept about God is meaningless. It is not it. Therefore, your insistence that anyone uses a particular one, tells you that you believe that truth or reality can be grasped by a concept, which is not true. A concept is not it.

Then how do you explain so many different concepts of a deity? All of them human at that. Not only do I think you read more into what I said than what I said, but you also don't get what a concept is. I never said a human concept could not be grasped. Of course a human concept can be grasped, but any attempt to describe IT, whatever IT is, is to not describe it at all. Even Lao Tzu of Taoism said the same thing.

Can you really describe the wind without describing its affects and effects? Can you even describe oxygen? It is a single O abbreviation and a element, but that's not really decribing oxygen? It has 8 electrons, 8 protrons, 8 neutrons, unless it is an ionized one then it has 9 eletrons or positive charged atom it has 7 electrons. This is enough for someone who understands this to know what oxygen is, but it doesn't really truly describe its essence for it has no essence.

By the same token, neither would a deity, IF one exists. If you cannot understand this, try taking your head out of the Bible or whatever book you are reading and check out The Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way with commentary of course, or you will never get it. Nagarjuna (of Buddhism) is a very difficult philosopher to follow. Not that I agree with everything he said, but he does have some very interesting concepts.

For me the idea of Father is the idea of SOURCE or HOME or CAUSE, our home, and obviously we are not from here.

What gave you that idea?

Did we not all see that we are all space, and light, if electrons and protons are fundamentally light, and then particles when we want to see them as that, but never both at the same time?

Electrons and protons are not light. Light is a photon. Electricity is NOT light. Electricity aggitates photons and that's how we see it. Electricity and amino acids are theorized to be the "first cause", but without the photons, you cannot see the electricity because light is photon.

Now where does love come into all of this when humans were not around during this process? There was no light when there was amino acids from the very beginning. Premodial soup is what it is called and I'm afraid there wasn't any love involved in this process, for it was far too much of a violent time in the process of the ever evolving earth. So my next suggestion is to get a science book that includes evolution and not some creationistic psuedoscience.

Mriana said...

For those not following me: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080731143329.htm

Dust and gases came before any star/sun or even planets for that matter. Since we cannot breathe any other gas but oxygen, we could not exist on any other planet. So, oxygen is a source of life. It cannot be omitted from that factor or as a first cause of life on earth.

There was no light in the primordial time of the universe, but something was happening to create various planets, stars, and eventually various lifeforms as we know today. It was a Cosmic Dark Age, as the article puts it. Light was not the first cause, but rather dust and gases, which oxygen is a gas and was involved in forming any source of light. It is also one element that we as humans ingest in order to survive, as well as made of. Oxygen is in H20 and even CO2, as well as in many other chemical combinations. It cannot be ignored as a source of life on this planet, nor can it be ignored in the process of various formation during this primordial "Dark Age". It has pretty much always existed, long before any light.

Therefore, light was not the first cause, but rather the mixing of various gases and dust to form all the mess you see in space and on earth.

Alban, Teacher of God said...

Mriana, this is getting a little boring to me. What are no telling me? That a primordial soup and oxygen and whatever -- what do I care? -- are the source of life, of me and you, of consciousness? Well, what then gave you the ability to think, to invent, to create? Is there creative ability in matter? This is ridiculous.

Furthermore, you read me wrong. I did not say, that you cannot understand or grasp a concept. I said truth cannot be expressed and understood, grasped as I put it, through a concept.

But you said something meaningful, probably not by intention: a concept cannot be understood. Why? Because you don't know what it is for. Indeed, you don't know what anything is for. You don't know what this discussion is for. You give it all the meaning it has for you.

Regarding "all space", I was referring to a perspective on any body entity. When you zoom in far enough, you would be all space. The distance between so called atoms and electrons is by far greater than the particles themselves. And in quantum physics you learn that there is a dual nature to any particle, depending on the perspective you choose for studying it. That might bring us a little closer to what light is. The light from a star is just a very very limited form of light. Much more light and of a much higher frequency and power is not visible to the human eye. So how can you say what light is?

Light is so much more than what the physical eye seem to catch. In case you want to get an impression, go here: http://www.squidoo.com/developmentoftrust#module10014186

But why are we talking to each other? I have no idea.

Alban, Teacher of God said...

Pretty funny to watch a discussion, and see how impossible it is to even find a common terrain and language of what participants are talking about.

That experience alone makes me say, there has to be a better way, or more to life than this endless story of miscommunication and problems, that have no solution.

What the heck are we doing?

shakeitup said...

Acharya,
Great job on your Testimonium Flavium research, The Jesus Forgery :Josephus Untangled. I was impressed, as I often am, at how thorough you are in your work. In true Acharya no nonsense style, you make it clear that there is NO evidence from historians of Jesus time.

I encourage people to actually hold a copy of the complete works of Josephus in their hands. Many libraries will have a copy.It is a BIG heavy book. When they find Testimonium Flavium they may start to understand how ridiculous this supposed evidence is. When I did it, in real life, I instantly understood in a much more total and complete way, what the scholars mean by calling it forgery. It suddenly is no longer just questionable, or highly suspect, it becomes complete , undeniable forgery, a con job. To physically hold this book, to see TF in context, to flip to pages before it and after it, and see what is around it, you can not help but conclude what any serious scholar does. Seeing the TF as a quote on the internet is one thing. Holding that huge book in my hands and being free to look at the pages around it gave me one of those “you’ve got to see to believe it” experiences. Or in this case “you’ve got to see it to NOT believe it” .

Anonymous said...

For some archeology behind these claims read, The Bible Unearthed, by Finkelstein and Silberman. Full of facts, must be read carefully to see the literal truth unveiled and, of course, the authors do tug-the-forelock at the end of the chapters when they explain that this is not to detract from the meaningfulness of the stories to the Jewish people. (Christ! Give me a break. When will humanity grow up?)